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  • SAWMAN

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    Doctors can do the same things with reference to your driver's license.
    A patient's failing health can be reason for the (your) doctor to alert DMV. --- SAWMAN
     

    FrommerStop

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    A good Article from a Lawyer who has been dealing with Red Flag type laws for a while. I didn't know Some LE CHARGE STORAGE FEES for Court Ordered seizures, which must be paid by "victim", who's guns can now be returned. Also mentioned is guns owned by others (not listed on the Red Flag Order) in same household : All guns get confiscated, including those locked in a Safe. A gun owned by someone else in same dwelling will get Red Flag targed charged for possession by a Firearms Restricted person and probably Contempt of Court for good measure.

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...g-red-flag-laws-are-even-worse-than-you-think

    Note the location
    And in my 23 years practicing law in the heart of Silicon Valley, I have litigated dozens of these cases. I’ve seen firsthand the practical enforcement problems that emerge in real-life cases.
    I want to hear from someone practicing law in the state of Florida and
    Florida is not yet new york, new jersey, or california,
     

    wildrider666

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    As FL Red Flag Law is relatively new, there is not a broad history to rely on. Abuses and problems with other States similar Laws serve as a foundation for fighting them here. Example: Do FL LE charge a ransom "storage fee" in order to get your firearms back after you have proven and the Court agreed that the reason for firearm seizure was in found unjustified? I don't know but thats an abuse o look for. We often use other States gun control laws that fail to reduce "gun violence" and are touted as "Common sense safety measures" for the failures they are in order to kill proposed laws that only criminalize law abiding conduct.

    As you search for FL specific use/abuse please Post whatever you find. Thanks
     

    Snake-Eyes

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    ...

    1) What constitutes a "significant danger of causing personal injury to himself or herself or others in the near future"?
    (The words in bold are the only added step for an ex parte enforcement. The no-notice, surprise enforcement.)

    2) What is significant danger? Is it the inflammatory remark to a Walmart firearms counter employee a few days after some criminal shot people? Is that same remark still "significant" three weeks later? What about pointing a finger at someone and yelling because they just crashed a shopping cart into the door of your new vehicle?

    3) Are CWL holders now held to a more restrictive standard of what they can legally say without triggering someone's fear?

    4) What is "the near future"? Two hours? Two days? Two months?

    5) What if you don't know exactly what kind of gun the respondent has? Do you ask a family member and just trust them? Do you scour some kind of registry for that info? Is having a CWL good enough to justify that portion of this RPO petition? Where is the line? Who determines it and based on what standards? ...

    I edited my previous post for clarity.

    Anyone with experience or knowledgeable answers? HayesGreener, still want to continue the discussion? Any other LEO?
     

    FrankT

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    FrommerStop

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    Mistaken identify is not at all uncommon. Normally shows up with bill collectors going after the wrong man. I am not sure how one can stop that since obviously fingerprints and physical description are not enough.
    fortunately for me my name is reasonably unique in this country with most people bearing my name being relatives.
     

    FrommerStop

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    no crime committed, but arrest was made, so was gun confiscation(of guns not belonging to the arrestee)

    let that sink in good.

    https://100percentfedup.com/college...ous-tip-about-meme-he-posted-on-social-media/

    This is what apparently happen. He in effect was swatted by someone posting under his name.
    he was anonymously reported for posting a meme on social media. The anonymous tip claimed that the meme proved he showed an interest in committing a mass shooting. Wagshol’s attorney claims he never made any comments on social media, and that he was arrested for posting the meme.
     

    Snake-Eyes

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    Whether it was someone else or himself, does it really matter? "Posting a meme" was the crime that got his guns confiscated, put him in JAIL without Bond pending a hearing, and got him SUSPENDED from College.

    That must be one hell of a damn picture...

    Is there seriously still LEO and others who support these laws?
     

    fl57caveman

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    these laws will not stop shootings....let them happen, so the shooter threat can be id'ed, and can be eliminated in an extreme fashion ,

    then show the shooter's body on live tv, with his head blown off, to see how many copycats want some of that...


    or kill all white men above the age of 15 ….like the toxic masculinity haters want..


    or let everyone carry...an armed society, is a polite society..
     
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    fv22

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    I see a lot of problems coming with these no due process laws.
     

    lil'skeet

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    these laws will not stop shootings....let them happen, so the shooter threat can be id'ed, and can be eliminated in an extreme fashion ,

    then show the shooter's body on live tv, with his head blown off, to see how many copycats want some of that...


    or kill all white men above the age of 15 ….like the toxic masculinity haters want..


    or let everyone carry...an armed society, is a polite society..

    I'll fix one error. White CHRISTIAN males over 15 years of age. Other than that 100% accurate.
    Americans like reality tv. Let the victims families have their way with killers/ child molesters and put it on prime time tv. There's your next American idol!
     

    wildrider666

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    no crime committed, but arrest was made, so was gun confiscation(of guns not belonging to the arrestee)
    let that sink in good.

    https://100percentfedup.com/college...ous-tip-about-meme-he-posted-on-social-media/

    No crime committed? There's the crime of Importing high capacity magizines (Charged with four Counts) which is a CT Class D Felony.
    There's info on what was confiscated. The comment about "his interest" in mass shooting is a really low hanging fruit becaust there's a hell of a lot of interest and desire for info after such events.

    https://m.ctpost.com/local/article/Police-Tips-prevented-3-potential-mass-shootings-14342621.php
     

    Snake-Eyes

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    He was arrested because of the "tip" about his online postings.
    He was charged with the "high-capacity" BS because of his own statements to the police.


    So, just to be clear: was this some kind of Federal-level "sting" with the FBI because he supposedly owned some high-capacity magazines? The, uh, Connecticut-specific STATE infringments were important enough for the FBI to try and get in on it? No? He was a suspected terrorist and THAT's why the FBI was involved? Because of some butt hurt people who saw a meme?

    Still not picking up on where "Due Process" was followed, or where there's any evidence other than some social media heresay...

    What a wonderful time for the 1st Amendment. My, how quickly it goes away with the 2nd Amendment...
    Imagine that.
     

    Fletch

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    The red flag laws certainly have the potential to be abused but I don't think this is a good example. This guy had more than just one questionable FB post. Quite a few disgusting twitter comments that show he is at best extremely racist and incredibly immature. Worst case another sociopath ready to release his rage on those he feels aggrieved by.

    False claims of military service and more. Liar, delusional, mentally ill? Do we really want firearm discussion forums around the land defending people like this? Only took me 3 minutes of googling. Don't want your guns taken away don't make social media post about putting people in gas chambers no matter how much their lifestyle, orientation, or gender claims may disgust you.

    https://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/brandon-wagshol-connecticut-racist-trump-transphobic-posts
    https://m.ctpost.com/local/article/Police-Tips-prevented-3-potential-mass-shootings-14342621.php

    I'm good with him not having access to firearms till he can prove he's not a lunatic. Probably a stretch to say they for sure prevented mass shootings but I'm not all that sympathetic to these socially retarded 20 something basement dwelling losers with call of duty fantasies.

    The simple fact of the matter is that many of them are not fully integrated and adjusted functioning adults in society. If we can keep guns out of their hands without unreasonable restrictions placed upon us normal folks who pay the bills I'm all for it.
     

    Snake-Eyes

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    So, you're cool with restricting Free Speech, as long as it's reprehensible to you.
    You're cool with arresting someone for what someone else thinks they may be capable of in the future, without any direct evidence of a threat.
    You're cool with being held in JAIL and a $250,000 bond for possession of FOUR 30-round magazines.

    And you are giving advice on what is appropriate to discuss on a gun forum?
     

    Fletch

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    He advocated for throwing people into a gas chamber. That's inciting violence and mass murder. Did he really mean it? Who knows but that is not protected free speech. His tweets were unhinged and yes he deserves due process and has a lawyer to advocate on his behalf. If he was just being an idiot and trolling then he is about to learn a very costly lesson in more ways than one.
     

    wildrider666

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    I've read about a dozen articles on Wagshol (CT). None of them state the action by LE was conducted under the provisions of a Red Flag Law. Every one says the "Tip" was about his intent to Import high capacity mags, and nothing in the Tip about a threat of mass shooting.

    The magazine issue instigated an investigation and that revealed his Internet activities. DURING the Investigation: Wagshol commented that "He was interested in committing a mass shooting" and a lot of other crap.

    The "Tip" was correct since Wagshole admitted going to NH and buying the mags and bringing them into CT. That is all that he is charge with at this time. With a Sept 6th Court date, Local/Feds could be working to see if they can put a case together for other charges.

    The guy created every issue here. Its only conjecture at this point if he was actually going to act. There is also a lot of media hype and spin on this. A "CACHE" of weapons seized: one .40 pistol and one 22LR rifle (Dads property), ammo including rounds for a rifle that has not been built.
    This Cache was neither large nor "secreted in hiding". I'm not sure wher the 4 evil mags were found. None of the other gear is Weapons, its all accessories or body protection. Since Shumer made a big deal about wanting to regulate body armor its been a media buzz word. Ignorant media has been calling load bearing vests a camo shirts bullet proof vests for years. The guy could have used it in pics to pad his IDF Resume.

    Only the mags are illegal by CT State Law. I have a personal opinion of the jackass but I'll let Local/Feds/Courts sort it out.
     

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