APOD Firearms

AR lowers

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  • FLT

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    If I buy a complete lower and assemble it as a pistol , then I can change back and forth between pistol and rifle as often as I want. But if I assemble it as a rifle first then it can never be a pistol. Is this correct?
     

    JWlineman

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    If the lower is sold and stated on transfer as a rifle then no you cannot convert to pistol. Most stripped lowers are sold as "other" and can be assembled either way. This of course is my understanding, other FFLs will chime in I'm sure.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
     

    wildrider666

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    As OP question and his answer as written, are correct. A lower FIRST assembled as a Pistol then to a rifle and back & forth is legal. JW is correct on how Lowers could/should be Listed in the FFLs Records. The ATF focusses on what firearm configuration was ASSEMBLED FIRST". A sold as a "pistol" or "other" lower that is assembled into a rifle first: can't be made into a pistol without doing the NFA SBR thing first. That's ATF interpretation. Next thing people ask is how would the know or catch you? How would they prove it was a rifle first? I don't know, not a concern of mine. If the lower is sold as "pistol" that's in your favor but "other" is wide open. Build a pistol take a pic with date/time and put it in your records.
     

    FrommerStop

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    If the lower is sold and stated on transfer as a rifle then no you cannot convert to pistol. Most stripped lowers are sold as "other" and can be assembled either way. This of course is my understanding, other FFLs will chime in I'm sure.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

    This is a critical point with me and I am little leery of buying a lower receiver for use with a pistol unless I can be absolutely certain there is nothing in its history stating that it never had anything to do with a rifle. If it is sold as other you likely would want a copy of the ATF 4473 form and you would have to keep it in your records.
    Do any AR receivers come marked 'pistol' on them?
    I am thinking that finishing an 80% receiver might be safer for use in a pistol. I can put any marking on them that I want.
     

    wildrider666

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    I wouldn't sweat buying a "pistol" or "Other" designated lower from a FFL. If you buy it from a private party what document covers your butt? How about that used Frankenpistol, was it originally a rifle? You might want to check and keep all the receipts.
     

    FrommerStop

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    I wouldn't sweat buying a "pistol" or "Other" designated lower from a FFL. If you buy it from a private party what document covers your butt? How about that used Frankenpistol, was it originally a rifle? You might want to check and keep all the receipts.
    Relative to records I know of some real scary things that the ATF has done. The best is a local gunsmith came to the attention of the ATF because they had apparently lost track or least that is what they told him of a registered NFA M16. Some how or other they misfiled it and it got into the file they had on him. He does NFA type work and has that license but normally does not work on FA weapons.
    An agent spent three days in his shop going over everything that was there. Other than the scare he got, at the end it was all well. This is why I mentioned having a copy of the federal record of sale for your records might be a good idea.
     

    SAWMAN

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    That I know of,no lowers say "rifle" or "pistol" on them. If you buy an "other" and assemble it into a rifle configuration,then at some point add a pistol bbl to it,how is anyone gonna know.
    This would be for stripped/new lowers only.
    A used lower could have been "borned" as anything and the civilian has no way of knowing it's history.
    For the FFL's. - - -> If I buy a COMPLETE lower from you,or bought from somewhere else and transfered to me thru you,that has a pistol type stock (Shockwave Blade,etc.),can I assume that it will be transferred as a "pistol" lower ?? Then . . . I can do anything that I want to with it ?? ---- SAWMAN
     

    Murfpcola

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    I have 2 Anderson lowers that are marked pistol on the mag well. I bought them from KT Tactical a few years ago and they were transferred as “other”.

    Dan1612 has been trying to buy them from me for a long time!
     

    SAWMAN

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    Understood sir . . . never seen one. Thank you for that feedback.
    Is there anyway that we can run a serno and find out if they are a/were a pistol or rifle ?? (I just want to keep squeaking.) --- SAWMAN
     
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    stage20

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    Understood sir . . . never seen one. Thank you for that feedback.
    Is there anyway that we can run a serno and find out if they are a/were a pistol or rifle ?? (I just want to keep squeaking.) --- SAWMAN

    Good question......and I think this information is only available to the law side of things. You can't check yourself to be legal, but they can check it to see if your illegal. Not fair.
     

    FLT

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    01911DE0-9E8D-4AC8-AFB1-E4E4553DA002.jpg

    The upper is labeled pistol only as well.
     

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    Murfpcola

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    From what I remember from my dealings with one of the forum favorites it is a little more complicated. On the 4473 the serial number is recorded as well as type(other). When called in the feds just get my info and the type, not the serial. The ffl keeps the paper with the serial so the feds could not tell you whether my lower was a pistol or not without tracking it down starting at the manufacturer and following the chain of custody to my ffl
     
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    FrommerStop

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    Often doing due diligence like retaining a copy of the record stating it was other I think would help. But the key is I 'think' is not the same as I 'know'.
     
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    FLT

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    Like most gun laws , it’s complicated. I don’t want to be the test case for some ambitious district attorney. Even if you win you’ll be out thousands of dollars in attorney fees.
     

    SAWMAN

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    With that RRA lower . . ?? . . I really do not understand why "pistol only".
    You cannot put a 16" upper on that lower ?? --- SAWMAN
     

    FLT

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    It’s a factory built pistol , the upper is branded RRA pistol only as well.

    I’ve never tried it but I’m sure it’s the same as all other RRA lowers except for the markings.
     
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    wildrider666

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    I think the "Pistol Only" is non binding as ATF states Pistol lower can be either. On the other hand, Knights engraves a stripped lower "Stoner Rifle", Aero makes one "M4 Carbine, Colt/PSA/others make Gov clones with M4A1 Carbine: these are probably sold as "Rifle".
     

    FLT

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    I’m sure you are correct, RRA just labeled it pistol. I don’t think there would be any legal issues with adding a 16 inch barrel and rifle stock. Sawman said he hadn’t seen one labeled pistol and I thought I’d post a picture for him to look at.
     
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    Murfpcola

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    Here is a pic of one of mine that Dan1612 gets so jealous of.

    A0D3C407-F04B-439E-900B-9C8E383C5245.jpg
     

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    stage20

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    I think the "Pistol Only" is non binding as ATF states Pistol lower can be either. On the other hand, Knights engraves a stripped lower "Stoner Rifle", Aero makes one "M4 Carbine, Colt/PSA/others make Gov clones with M4A1 Carbine: these are probably sold as "Rifle".

    Incomplete firearm is still listed as other. Anything is possible though
     

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