Target Sports

Active Duty suicide rates drive broad Mil/Vet gun control

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Gulf Coast States

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • FLT

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Joined
    May 15, 2017
    Messages
    3,847
    Points
    113
    Location
    Havana
    The government will protect you from yourself, even if they have to shoot you dead to accomplish their goal.
     

    Big Shrek

    Marksman
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Joined
    Mar 4, 2016
    Messages
    986
    Points
    63
    Location
    Pensacola, FL
    What they need is far better "Aftercare" when these troops come off a deployment, so they're not sketched out and heading down the rabbit hole. It's kind of strange to say, but it's kinda like socializing a large breed dog. Dog doesn't really wanna hurt anyone, it just doesn't know any better...same with returning troops...they've been shooting the BLEEP out of anything & everything that moved wrong, so they've got to be RE-Socialized so they aren't doing the same thing when they get home...and that includes themselves.

    The effed up thing is that these buggers were given all they needed to know in BOOT...Compartmentalization, Adapt, Overcome, Improvise. And honestly, FAKE IT until you MAKE IT!! See, there IS a point to Shamming!!! If yer head is jacked up, cover it up from the outside world, but go see a shrink and get yer brain squared away.


    I've been writing derivations on LIVING for decades...
    Hope this helps someone. Hope it's passed on to those who need it.

    Ya got ONE life. Don't toss it because yer noggin is full of poo.
    Get the Poo out...with exactly the same things that got the Poo out in Boot.
    PT every morning. Get a good march in every day. Do your 16-count manual of arms.
    Practice your hand-to-hand combat. Clean the heck out of wherever you are living.
    If it's a cardboard box, have the cleanest cardboard box in the alley. BATHE DAILY.
    Shave & a Sat Haircut too...if you LOOK SHARP, You FEEL SHARP.
    And DO SOMETHING NICE FOR SOMEONE ELSE every day!!

    I was a squirrely joker when I got my DD214, joined the local Volunteer Fire Dept.
    Gave myself a PURPOSE...and, if ya accidently get killed in a fire, yer folks get 10K.
    Went around like I was bulletproof...charge into Hades with a bucket of Ice Water...
    Not that I was looking for Death, it's just that I wouldn't have minded had I found the scumbag.
    Meanwhile, I became human again. Mostly. There's still a part of me that's gonna be screwy.
    So what. Nobody's perfect. On the upside, if the squishy hits the fan, I'm ready for it.
    Car crashes in front of me, On It. House gets hit by lightning & lights up...On It.
    Dude has a heart attack in front of me, whip out a CPR mask and On It.
    Gerbils & Hamsters riot in the square, I got a slingshot solution for 'em.

    Saving a life will change yours.
    First thought usually is..."WOW! That was AWESOME!! Let's find another one!!"
    from there, you start returning to normal...or whatever passes for it these days!

    Granted, there are a lot of sucky things that go on in the world...
    but there are a lot of really cool things too.
    Sometimes you just receive a lesson to overcome...and ya fail. Learn from it.
    Pick yerself up and either try it again, or pick a different path that ya can make.
    Life IS the Obstacle Course. Figure out how to overcome each problem.

    None of 'em are permanent anyway...there's always an Out.
    Might suck to high heaven for a year or two, but there's always an out.

    Above all, have some GOALS...
    Where/What do you wanna be next year?? In 5 years??
    Set the Goal, chase the goal, reach the goal!!
    PewPewchill.jpg
     

    Attachments

    • PewPewchill.jpg
      PewPewchill.jpg
      34.1 KB · Views: 337

    Snake-Eyes

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Joined
    Jun 22, 2013
    Messages
    3,416
    Points
    113
    Location
    Florida
    ^--- Big Shrek's words address the issue of some root causes for suicide among troops. Some really good advice and life-lessons.

    The "study" referenced in the OP's link, and all of the support for "limiting access", is all just another gun-control tactic. Yet again: if your arguement is to help stop suicides, why the focus on one specific method amongst countless? Why not focus on the causes? Oh that's right: because the GUNS are the target. The dying troops are just another reason to exploit.

    Plus, bonus for the anti-2A crowd: if this BS is implemented, you would be limiting firearm access to the largest group of Patriots who would actually Do Something about a tyrannical government. Hmmm...
     

    FLT

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Joined
    May 15, 2017
    Messages
    3,847
    Points
    113
    Location
    Havana
    Politicians fear veterans more than any other group. They know veterans know how to fight and will fight for what they believe is right. This is just another ploy to disarm them.
     

    SAWMAN

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    9   0   0
    Joined
    Oct 21, 2012
    Messages
    13,937
    Points
    113
    Location
    Cantonment,Fla.
    Many (MANY) combat vets are extremely reluctant to come forward looking for help with their mental problems solely because they are affraid that their firearm rights will be stripped from them.
    This includes not only concealed carry but also hunting and general shooting privileges. PLUS . . . simple firearm ownership. Even ownership of firearms passed down from their parents and grandparents that have sentimental value.
    This is extremely sad but what are they to do ?? --- SAWMAN
     

    FrankT

    6.8 SPCII Hog Slayer
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Joined
    Sep 26, 2012
    Messages
    17,360
    Points
    113
    Location
    Crestview/Hwy 90E/Shoal River
    Many (MANY) combat vets are extremely reluctant to come forward looking for help with their mental problems solely because they are affraid that their firearm rights will be stripped from them.
    This includes not only concealed carry but also hunting and general shooting privileges. PLUS . . . simple firearm ownership. Even ownership of firearms passed down from their parents and grandparents that have sentimental value.
    This is extremely sad but what are they to do ?? --- SAWMAN

    Precisely and sometimes leads to Vets committing suicide due to lack of treatment...it is more than disturbing and sickening at the same time. We go to a service shrink and all the above and more including loss of all financial responsibility and put under someone else related or not.
     

    wildrider666

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Joined
    Sep 26, 2012
    Messages
    8,753
    Points
    113
    Location
    Panama City Beach, Fl
    Here's is where the B.S. is JAMA "Study" as referenced/Linked in the Article. From the quoted Key Points below, we can clearly see what the sgenda was. Just as the gun grabbers blame guns for crime, they similarly blame them for the suicides. There is very little mention (one sentence) of methods that the other 45% of Soldiers used to kill themselves. It's about gun control not military suicides.

    Here's my take on this. Military vs civilian stats are not that much different. However, when you consider in total the life exposures and additional hardships that Mil Service adds to mental stress: its amazing that the numbers aren't double or triple those of civilians. To that I salute the caliber of our military personnel. Once again, JAMA and its minions are only looking for another platter to serve up gun control and disarmament.

    https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2735465

    Key Points

    Question To what extent do firearm ownership, use, accessibility, and storage practices increase suicide risk among US Army soldiers?

    Findings In this case-control, psychological autopsy study of 135 soldiers who died by suicide, firearm accessibility was associated with a significant increase in the risk of suicide. Next-of-kin reported that soldiers who died by suicide were more likely to own firearms, have home access to firearms, and have home storage of ammunition compared with propensity-matched controls.

    Meaning This study suggests that identifying possible targets for intervention, such as promoting the separate storage of guns and ammunition as well as discouraging public carrying of firearms when not required for military duties, has important implications for suicide prevention.
     

    Zeroed in

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Joined
    Sep 26, 2012
    Messages
    2,873
    Points
    113
    Location
    7th Inf Div Vet.
    True, suicide is an issue that needs to be addressed and the sooner the better. I'm also sure firearms are involved in many suicides, not disputing that.
    However, and I may be wrong, but I believe the report to be biased. As the percentages listed is a whole, and I'm sure not all were by firearms. But it's written/stated as if they are.
    Also, this statement really contradicts itself. "It's been proven," Rice said, "that restricting access to firearms may reduce suicide rates."
    Either it does or it doesn't. "Proven" leaves no doubt whereas "May" leaves doubt.
    That's about the same as saying, "it's been "proven" that restricting access to fishing "may" reduce suicide rates".
     

    wildrider666

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Joined
    Sep 26, 2012
    Messages
    8,753
    Points
    113
    Location
    Panama City Beach, Fl
    It is very important to Note their "theoretical" attempt to tie in "weapon carry" as contributing. First ref to knives, blackjacks and mace, then firearms carried or in vehicles; then combines them. Then they attribute carrying weapons as fostering a fearlessness of death and therefore being more familiar to it, it reduces the boundry to take ones own life. THIS is setting a foundation on which to create another restriction or suspension of the Right to Bear Arms.

    Why are firearms the most used method of suicide (civ/mil). Same reason more hunters use them than primitive weapons, why people use cars instead of horses, planes instead of busses: effectiveness. Obviously, there has been a high level of successful suicides without firearms, therefore; firearms infered connections are neithed universally causative nor contributing. This leaves the actual "cause" being mental state and mental perception as the areas for intervention.

    There are clear parallels between blaming firearms for large percentage of suicides and blaming firearms for crimes where firearms were utilized. It is gun control agenda targeting the tool not the individual responsible. A determined suicidal person like a murder, will find a means to commit the act; in both cases there is no way in a free society to eliminate all potential tools.
     

    MauserLarry

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Joined
    Dec 17, 2017
    Messages
    1,405
    Points
    113
    Location
    Crestview Florida
    This study is a nothing burger. No telling how much money was spent on this. It proves what any person would expect, people that have guns shoot themselves and people that don't resort to "asphyxiation or hanging". In fairly much the same proportions too. Who in the hell wants to hang themselves when they can do it quickly and painlessly with a gun. We all need to be on the watch for people we know that may have tendencies to harm themselves and try to get them help. This is not as easy as it sounds. I had a buddy call me once and tell me he was thinking about shooting himself. He was a naturally gloomy person so I thought nothing of it. He shot his self that night. We may only get one chance to save another person.
     

    fl57caveman

    eclectic atavist
    GCGF Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    5   0   0
    Joined
    Jan 23, 2015
    Messages
    12,176
    Points
    113
    Location
    n.w. florida
    This study is a nothing burger. No telling how much money was spent on this. It proves what any person would expect, people that have guns shoot themselves and people that don't resort to "asphyxiation or hanging". In fairly much the same proportions too. Who in the hell wants to hang themselves when they can do it quickly and painlessly with a gun. We all need to be on the watch for people we know that may have tendencies to harm themselves and try to get them help. This is not as easy as it sounds. I had a buddy call me once and tell me he was thinking about shooting himself. He was a naturally gloomy person so I thought nothing of it. He shot his self that night. We may only get one chance to save another person.


    ^^this


    my wife answered the phone one day while at work with me, it was a wrong number, but the person acted weird, then started to talk suicide..

    he had dialed suicide hotline, and hit the wrong #..
    she kept talking to him, trying to draw the problem out, I don't remember the outcome, it was in the 90's, but I think she talked him out of it, and he got some help...


    I was going to do it once, in my late teens or very early 20's, made a note out, loaded the shotgun, laid down to listen to some music before i did it, woke up in the morning laying by the note, the gun, and in my clothes, still listening to the 8trk tape I put in...five hours of dark side of the moon, over and over..

    being drunk that time, saved my life..




    edit; many many many times, booze, drugs are involved in suicides..it opens a portal in oneself, that satan can work in, and plant ideas in your mind..

    I quit drinking in 1982, it has made all the difference.
     
    Last edited:

    FLT

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Joined
    May 15, 2017
    Messages
    3,847
    Points
    113
    Location
    Havana
    Smoke and mirrors gentlemen, politicians and gun control fanatics, could careless how many veterans kill them self’s. They fear veterans more than any other group in America. They might just be on to something, veterans can and will fight if it’s something they feel strongly about.
     

    FrankT

    6.8 SPCII Hog Slayer
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Joined
    Sep 26, 2012
    Messages
    17,360
    Points
    113
    Location
    Crestview/Hwy 90E/Shoal River
    Smoke and mirrors gentlemen, politicians and gun control fanatics, could careless how many veterans kill them self’s. They fear veterans more than any other group in America. They might just be on to something, veterans can and will fight if it’s something they feel strongly about.

    you are absolutely correct and the demoRats in congress have said as much talking down about Military members and Vets alike...I believe they are very afraid we will rise up against their socialist agenda or a mas gun grab...and many of us will
     

    Zeroed in

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Joined
    Sep 26, 2012
    Messages
    2,873
    Points
    113
    Location
    7th Inf Div Vet.
    It proves what any person would expect, people that have guns shoot themselves and people that don't resort to "asphyxiation or hanging". In fairly much the same proportions too. Who in the hell wants to hang themselves when they can do it quickly and painlessly with a gun.

    That hits home, and I won't go into details, But you could not be more WRONG in your assumptions with both of these comments. And they are just that, Your ASSUMPTIONS.
     

    MauserLarry

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Joined
    Dec 17, 2017
    Messages
    1,405
    Points
    113
    Location
    Crestview Florida
    That hits home, and I won't go into details, But you could not be more WRONG in your assumptions with both of these comments. And they are just that, Your ASSUMPTIONS.

    " Firearms were the most common method of injury identified with 61 of the 111 soldiers (55.0%) dying by this method. Among those who died by firearm suicide, 58 (95.1%) used a firearm that was not a military issue or duty weapon. Of these 61 firearm suicides, 46 (75.4%) were reported to have a gun in the home or immediate environment. After firearms, hanging or asphyxiation was the next most frequently reported method of injury, with 35 of the 111 soldiers (32.0%) dying by this method."

    Well here it is, the proportion is 55% versus 35%, not exactly even but close. That's in the report. It's not my assumption, if you have a problem with the facts carry your ass up there and argue with them.
     

    Big Shrek

    Marksman
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Joined
    Mar 4, 2016
    Messages
    986
    Points
    63
    Location
    Pensacola, FL
    I wonder how many of the suicides are hipsters that got surprised by The Real after joining up.
    How many more were all about the Glory, and nobody ever told 'em what kind of blood cost it has.
    And that most of them seem to not have good coping skills, before or after being in.
    Which is kinda screwy, because the Military is ALL about coping with the poo you are about to receive.
    Where's the disconnect??

    Grew up listening to my cousins & uncles talk about their experiences in Vietnam, lotta groundpounders, a few pilots, some techs & tankers thrown in. All of them had at least one seriously screwed up incident that would mark 'em for life...but they all handled it...and talked about it with us young fellas and they'd tell us straight out not to join up. (still joined up...lol) But here's the thing...all of 'em were country boys. Grounded. Drink, raise heck, dance and raise a ruckus on Fri & Sat...in church on Sunday. Schedule you could set a watch to. Main thing, BALANCE.

    My Dad, on the other hand, didn't talk about much to anyone. Not even his brothers who had been to Vietnam and wish like heck he HAD talked to them. All I ever knew was that he had real bad nightmares sometimes. When I was 9 he committed suicide. Gee, thanks for the mind-shred, Pops. Great way to totally jack up your kids. Because even a jacked-in-the-head Dad is far better than "Dad who killed himself because he couldn't stick around and help his little kids grow up". Years of psych. Still angry at him. Still sad about it. Still would like to find a time machine, use it, and deck him at least once & try to talk him out of it before he drank the poison. But there ain't nothing to be done, other than NOT go down his rabbit-hole.

    Suicide is still a stupid solution to a temporary problem.
    Everything changes. Things get better eventually.
    Just Hurry Up & Wait. You got used to that In...get used to it Out.
    There are ZERO instant fixes when it comes to brains.
    Do the time on Planet Earth...see the cool stuff that happens next.
    It's worth a little Hades for awhile to get to the next nice thing.

    And if all else fails, remember that you're not a Coastie, so there's still hope!!
     
    Last edited:
    Top Bottom