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Cops vs guy w/knife. Graphic!

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  • Snake-Eyes

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    What's your point? This is a coward criminal who committed suicide-by-cop.
    He endangered the entire community, attacked a police officer, and forced them to kill him and live with those memories (how ever they might process them, it's a permanent thing to deal with).

    Are you trying to debrief how the police could've responded better? Is this some kind of BS social commentary?

    Since you started the thread, my two-cents: it's unfortunate that the criminal was able to harm one of the officers. It's unfortunate that the criminal started this entire exchange. It's unfortunate that bleeding-heart idiots will still blame the police for not being able to onsite instantaneously fix a lethal case of Crazy.
     

    SAWMAN

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    Just made me sick. The police went waaaaaay too far. "Put the knife down !!" How may times ?? Good lord !!
    It is sad that the police officer got hurt. He DID NOT have it coming . . . BUT . . . it was his fault.
    The first volly of shots were not aimed shots. If your gonna spray 'em why the hell would you not come out of your cruiser with a shotgun. Much more effective in a close range situation. One AIMED load of buckshot. Threat over. Not rocket science.
    DAMN . . cops . . ?? Maybe you need a rocket launcher,more training,or a different set of rules of engaugement. --- SAWMAN
     
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    stage20

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    What's your point? This is a coward criminal who committed suicide-by-cop.
    He endangered the entire community, attacked a police officer, and forced them to kill him and live with those memories (how ever they might process them, it's a permanent thing to deal with).

    Are you trying to debrief how the police could've responded better? Is this some kind of BS social commentary?

    Since you started the thread, my two-cents: it's unfortunate that the criminal was able to harm one of the officers. It's unfortunate that the criminal started this entire exchange. It's unfortunate that bleeding-heart idiots will still blame the police for not being able to onsite instantaneously fix a lethal case of Crazy.

    Wow now. Your posts are always on point but I believe you have me on the wrong side. He needed more bullets the first go round. He should have never been able to get hold of that officer. They did everything they could to keep him alive, but once fire was opened he needed more brass. The threat was not eliminated.
     

    fl57caveman

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    they should not backed up past their patrol car , end it there, with taser, lead or both...I saw several mistakes made
     

    Snake-Eyes

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    Gotcha. Yeah, I'm not a cop, and I don't play one on tv, and I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.

    Why didn't they use the taser first? Why didn't they use a shotgun? Why didn't they continue shooting when he got up still holding a knife? Why was the second officer able to be taken hostage?

    I don't know. They have their tactics. Maybe they would've changed things. Maybe not. Hopefully they learned from it. Thankfully they're all alive to do so.

    Frankly, I'm content that the good guys lived, and it's not my area of expertise to second-guess them. Congrats on going home at the of the shift, fellas. Shitty day at work and all...
     

    Jester896

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    Officer #2 was trying to deploy taser but ended up performing (in my civi view) the perfect hostage drill. I think the place for them to stand their ground was halfway down the hill. That is the first time I didn't see background movement of some type whether it was cars or people moving and something to deflect or slow a miss down.

    Yep...a shitty day at work and glad the 2 of them got home safe
     

    MauserLarry

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    Caveman, you always seem to come up with good solutions to every problem. Now if you can figure out how I can afford that rare a Luger I'd be your best buddy for life!
     

    MauserLarry

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    Easy to armchair quarterback a video but it's a whole different ballgame when you're in their shoes.

    I just really figured that didn't want to shoot him cause he only had a knife and really tried to give him a break. Turned out the knife was dangerous too. If he'd had a gun they'd shot him as soon as it appeared. They showed amazing restraint, I was scared they were going to back themselves into the main road and get run over.
     
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    SAWMAN

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    I just watched the vid again. Am I seeing this right. The cop that is grabbed and stabbed by the perp was trying to unholster his pistol as he was being stabbed ??
    The cops backed up waaaaay too far. What the fork were they gonna do when they got back down to the main road . . . take a bus ?? DAMN . . HOW STOOPID !!
    TASER ?? What is the max distance that a TASER can be deployed ?? I got my pistol out in my strong hand. Now what ?? Pull TASER with the weak hand and attempt to target the perp ?? Shift my deadly weapon to my weak hand while the perp is coming at me with a deadly weapon ??
    Here is what I'm gonna do - - -> Perps got a blade. I'm coming outta my cruiser with a shotgun or at least a carbine. If only a pistol,i'm gonna shoot him until he hits the ground. I will maintain my distance as long as he is conscious and is holding the blade. If he rises to his feet and takes one step in my direction . . he will get the same. I will stand there and watch him bleed out as long as he is a threat (OR . . . I certinly could shoot him some more). When he goes unconcious I will cuff him and call EMS.
    That's the "to protect and to serve" best he gets from me.
    And . . . I guess thst is why I am not a patrol cop. ---- SAWMAN
     

    wildrider666

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    I think in these times of public and media anti cop condemnation, some Officers may allow threats to cross that Policy/Procedures "Line in the sand" and create additional risk to themselves.

    Overview.
    Officers had G17 9mm, 2 spare mags, 52 total rounds per officer (type ammo not specified but probably some high speed low drag FBIish cartridge) and Sidearm Qualified. High Stress: knife wielding suspect wearing a T-shirt and athletic type pants: confronted, persued then charged officer(s). First Office1 fires Seven rounds (hits?) puts BG on ground. BG gets up, chases and grabs Officer 1, goes to ground and BG gets dominant position on Officer 1 who warns BGs grabbed for His gun. Officer 2 fires four shots and Threat goes and stays down.

    It appears to be what is commonly called "suicide by cop" but don't think for a second that the BGs threat and actions are any less life threatening to the officers because BGs end game is to die. These are "You or Me" will die situations. I don't think the general public clearly understands that fact. The perception is the "person" is going to force the cope to kill him but never focus on the actual physical threat the officers face. That Dept has a Firearms Policy prohibiting the use of any shoulder fired weapon in a "knife" event.

    My interpetation.
    First sequence of shots (1 or 7 hits, no CNS) only paused the BGs advance, caused him to drop the knife. Officers probably "subconsciously" though BGs down, its over and lowered their guard even though they were methodically going through the motions. How many time do we hear " Just because your shot doesn't mean your out of the fight! BG was not overcome by shock, trauma or blood loss (drugs?). As soon as he figured out he could get up, he resumed his advance (without the knife). There was some critical reaction time loss trying to switch between handgun and Tazer (*). resulting in Officer 1 being empty handed. BG got up and closed on the officer fast enough (surprise movement: your shot, you can't do that!) that he caught, physically engaged and dominated Officer 1 who was using one hand for weapon retention in holster. Office 2 series of shots: first two started release/seperation from Officer 1 while two more finally put BG out of the fight. We don't know number of or placement of hits.
    * Even though the knife was dropped, there was no reason to think the BG would abandon his lethal intent (You or Me): physical attack, grabbing at Officers gun and choking him support this position.

    Considerations.
    1. If its moving it ain't over. You may not have to shoot again but you damn sure better be ready.
    a. Reassess before you holster!
    b. Civs don't have a duty to render aid to someone who just tried to kill you. Lawyers tell you it looks good in Court.
    2. There's not much magic in magic bullets without shot placement.
    3. I don't gear up for some "Experts repeating 3 shots within 3 feet" averages.
    4. Do I carry enough gun?
    a. Big calibers leave bigger holes if bullets fail.
    b. Does gun have enough initial capacity?
    5. Do I carry enough ammo? Spare mag(s)
    6. Is my training up to the event?
    7. The "21 foot Rule" applies to weapon transitions too (tazer, baton, Chem, gun).
    8. Increased distance and cover/barriers always help you.
    9. While in a lethal use of force engagement, BGs loss of weapon does not change force level as long as BG continues physical aggression.

    Unresolved.
    Ammunition type used.
    Autopsy ballistics: number of hits,, probable sequence, location, damage, fatal in short/long term, fatal instantaneously.
    Recovered bullet ballistic examination results.
    Autopsy drug/alcohol screen results.
    Did a T-shirt and maybe a layer of sports pants and underwear defeat expansion or penetration?

    Above is Opinion not Legal Advice.
     

    stage20

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    Easy to armchair quarterback a video but it's a whole different ballgame when you're in their shoes.

    They made mistakes. Hope they learned something from this life threatening exercise.
    If you were coming at me with a knife I wouldn't have any rounds left. Eliminate the threat. When he was back to his feet he should have been dropped again.
     

    John B.

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    I think it was already said, and it's quite obvious in the video.... these guys do everything they can not to shoot the guy.... it's not 1980 any more, old guys... everyone is filming everything and you better be damn sure before you pull the trigger.... even if not found guilty in the court of law, their lives are typically ruined due to the court of public opinion.

    It's tough to be a cop this day and age. Much harder than being an armchair qb...

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
     

    fl57caveman

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    they should have sat down and reasoned with him, try to draw out what injustice is bothering him, or if he had family that could have come to talk him down, used a therapy dog to calm him down, or played soothing music to give him a safe space to come down in...







    or let him take a nap, yeah, that will work. that is what he needed, a dirt nap.


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