I don't usually post on these kinds of threads as the opinions usually go to all extremes. I have worked with some Iranians and found them to be good hard workers and were intelligent. I do believe if there's ever a war with them the whole country will be supportive and of one mindset...............total war. It will get real nasty really quickly. I spotted this today and it might be helpful in the debate.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/wanna-bomb-iran-here-are-all-reasons-it-could-backfire-63832

I am in favor of negotiating with them......up to a point. See what they want and what their beefs are. Maybe we can live with them and get some sort of peace going over there. Our military really doesn't need another war going on right now. When you look at the divisions in this country now I wonder why the politicians think they can fix the much deeper and more serious divisions over there. They can't, too many of the people hate each other and always will.

Stagman said:

It's what we do, the first Gulf War was fabricated lies and the second was WMD lies. The United States is a oil company with a military (storm troopers), it's a shame we lose so man young men fighting these banker wars.

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Evidently you are VERY uninformed.
Or just like to regurgitate Liberal Lies.
Or never bothered to fact check.
Iraq had WMD's. The USA and FRANCE sold him WMD's and the means to make MORE.
We did this so Saddam would make war on Iran and screw them up.
WHICH IS WHY WE KNEW HE HAD WMD'S, BECAUSE WE SOLD THEM TO HIM!

He actually USED WMD's on his own people, the Kurds...and reportedly against the Iranian's once...
big stink about that, which all the libs try to forget...
Saddam also sold a fair amount to Syria, who recently USED them, then everyone went,
"Oh, that's where the rest of Saddam's Nerve Gas went!"

The thing we still don't know...where those Mobile Lab trailers went...whatcha wanna bet ISIS has them now??

And we also found all this stuff...and these pics are far from all...he really did try to bury that stuff in the desert.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I take exception to the content and conclusions in the Article Linked in Post #41.

There has been so much negative Press/media reporting that no nuke material et al. were found in Iraq. They didn't give a shit about WMD, just NUKES!
THE ARTICLE USES: Iraq (nuke stuff) original existance and a specifically later (after Israel air strike) a mass build up (scientists and materials) covertly distributed and hidden. Stating that Iran would do the same: SO DON'T ATTACK Iran!

Press/Media can't have it both ways in order to support their agenda.

I don't support full declared War with Iran at this time. I do unwaveringly support heavy retaliation for the well documented hostile acts Iran has committed. Iran can then lick its wounds and talk more shit or escalate hostilities ultimately into declared War. Iran is a physical and vocal pain in the ass that continues to provoke the U.S. and is overdue for a firepower reality check. That delivered reality check will also be noted by other Nations wanting to expand their ambitions.

Walking softly carrying a big stick is only an effective deterrent if would be challengers fully understand you will use it. You do not have to use all of it, just enough to reinforce the understanding.

For the Conspiracy Theorists, if they didn't pay attention when the entire Socialist Democrat playbook was put into Captain America: Winter Soldier, and failed to realize the movie was them showing off what is planned, then they still don't get it.

The most interesting part is those that controlled the NAZI party & the Communist Party are still in control, and controlling those same Socialist Democrats, using practically the exact same tactics. The only problem is that they still get grabby, overplay their hand, and end up loosing because they can't wait. All they really have to do is keep letting their school instructors, the teachers of all the US kids, keep indoctrinating those kids for another 50 years, and the USA of tomorrow won't be recognizable by any means to people who are living today. They'll hand over their rights wholesale, because very very few are teaching their kids what it all really means.

Why support war with Iran? Because it just might lead to the only thing that can save the US...Thermonuclear War.
A huge Population Cull. Reset everything. Take it back to the Stone Age, worldwide.
Short of that, the Socialists win everything, one way or the other. They've set the game. They've set the match.
They can keep forcing it, with BLM & the rest of the useful idiots, or they can just wait until the Indoctrination makes it all inevitable.

Enjoy!

wildrider666 said:

Above: "What they WOULD use it for is leverage in political talks." Please explain what that "leverage" is, if not a threat to use a Nuke, Dirty Bomb or provide it to some Group that will? Because you HIGHLY DOUBT Iran would use it , does not make a threat go away and conflicts with World opinion. These two things show the naive arguement you present.

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Can you think of another country that has nukes and extremely unstable leadership? North Korea ring a bell? They have not, and will not use theirs just as Iran won't. It's just posturing so they have a "voice" on the international stage. Both of those countries know full well they'd be bombed into dust if they were to ever even try to use them. Yes, Iran is an insane, unstable, garbage fire of a country and it's people have a stone age mentality. This still doesn't equate to them using a nuke. Leverage consists of removing sanctions, international aid, and having a say in what goes on in their region of the world. It doesn't mean they're going to hold the world hostage with a damn bomb. Just having one would give them a leg up. What do you think is keeping India and Pakistan from all out war constantly? They're both nuclear capable and they both recognize mutually assured destruction.

kidsoncoffee said:

Can you think of another country that has nukes and extremely unstable leadership? North Korea ring a bell? They have not, and will not use theirs just as Iran won't. It's just posturing so they have a "voice" on the international stage. Both of those countries know full well they'd be bombed into dust if they were to ever even try to use them. Yes, Iran is an insane, unstable, garbage fire of a country and it's people have a stone age mentality. This still doesn't equate to them using a nuke. Leverage consists of removing sanctions, international aid, and having a say in what goes on in their region of the world. It doesn't mean they're going to hold the world hostage with a damn bomb. Just having one would give them a leg up. What do you think is keeping India and Pakistan from all out war constantly? They're both nuclear capable and they both recognize mutually assured destruction.

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"mutually assured destruction"

Same thing that kept us and the Russians from blowing each other up. If you only have a few bombs you don't go screwing with somebody that has over 6000.

MauserLarry said:

"mutually assured destruction"

Same thing that kept us and the Russians from blowing each other up. If you only have a few bombs you don't go screwing with somebody that has over 6000.

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But I'm the crazy conspiracy theorist for pointing that out....

kidsoncoffee said:

Can you think of another country that has nukes and extremely unstable leadership? North Korea ring a bell? They have not, and will not use theirs just as Iran won't. It's just posturing so they have a "voice" on the international stage. Both of those countries know full well they'd be bombed into dust if they were to ever even try to use them. Yes, Iran is an insane, unstable, garbage fire of a country and it's people have a stone age mentality. This still doesn't equate to them using a nuke. Leverage consists of removing sanctions, international aid, and having a say in what goes on in their region of the world. It doesn't mean they're going to hold the world hostage with a damn bomb. Just having one would give them a leg up. What do you think is keeping India and Pakistan from all out war constantly? They're both nuclear capable and they both recognize mutually assured destruction.

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You said they would use it for leverage (I agree) and THE ONLY WAY THAT CAN OCCURE IS IF THEY USE IT AS A THREAT. Your substuting "potential demands of what they may want" instead of WHAT THAT LEVERAGE IS.

If your all warm and fuzzy that Iraqs' nuke program is no threat, Iran is not going to pass a dirty bomb to one of their sponsored terrorist orgs or launch a nuke themselves: then there is no Leverage, is there?

I think most intelligent people know a Nuke war has no winners. That doesn't mean someone with a nuke won't take a shot. And the rest of the World will say don't retaliate if there is time to do so.

wildrider666 said:

You said they would use it for leverage (I agree) and THE ONLY WAY THAT CAN OCCURE IS IF THEY USE IT AS A THREAT. Your substuting "potential demands of what they may want" instead of WHAT THAT LEVERAGE IS.

If your all warm and fuzzy that Iraqs' nuke program is no threat, Iran is not going to pass a dirty bomb to one of their sponsored terrorist orgs or launch a nuke themselves: then there is no Leverage, is there?

I think most intelligent people know a Nuke war has no winners. That doesn't mean someone with a nuke won't take a shot. And the rest of the World will say don't retaliate if there is time to do so.

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Maybe it's the optimist in me. I dunno. I don't see it as any different as the US or Russia flexing their nukes to get their way. I just don't see them handing over nukes to some goat fucking terrorists either. If they go forward with a nuclear program, there would be international oversight, if Trump hadn't fucked that one up. I do see your point of view though. I just see it in a didn't perspective. They want a seat at the grown ups table, and they're not going to get it unless they are nuclear capable.

kidsoncoffee said:

Maybe it's the optimist in me. I dunno. I don't see it as any different as the US or Russia flexing their nukes to get their way. I just don't see them handing over nukes to some goat fucking terrorists either. If they go forward with a nuclear program, there would be international oversight, if Trump hadn't fucked that one up. I do see your point of view though. I just see it in a didn't perspective. They want a seat at the grown ups table, and they're not going to get it unless they are nuclear capable.

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You mean international oversight where the country being inspected dictates what they will allow to be inspected, when to inspect, who will do the inspections, no suprise inspections, no inspections of locations, places or buildings they don't want inspected, Allowed to deny inspections repeatedly, Allowed to deny inspectors by name or Country! That's such a great deal we'll covertly send a jet with pallets of cash at night to insure your complete non compliance. That whole deal was to give Kerry a juice card going into the presidential elections.
Inspections are just a delay game of cat and mouse at best and a joke when the inspected Country dictates all the rules.

I think the whole thing could have been handled better. I feel there could have been further negotiations that would have taken more of the power away from Iran on their demands in the deal. Walking completely away from the table and not having any more discourse though did absolutely nothing in favor of the international community. It only made it worse. Again, I absolutely see where you and everyone else is coming from. I'm not against you on this. But being a hard lined asshole and just walking away and pouting like a child gets us absolutely fucking nowhere. I'd love for Iran to never have nukes. I'd love to see their corrupt government ousted and their stone age religious views thrown to the wind. But I don't want it to happen with American men and women losing their lives for it. Iran is not a threat to us. They are a threat to their neighbors though. I believe those neighbors should fight this fight. Not us. But Israel and Saudi Arabia are pulling the puppet strings behind closed doors, and it's Americans that are going to pay the price for it.

So, let's look at the map. If Iran has nukes, and assuming they are at best intermediate range (can't reach US) they are certainly not going to launch north or east and overfly/hit a country that would certainly annihilate them should their missile fall short of target. Anyone think they'll hit Africa? Anyone think anyone would care if they did? They major threatened area is WNW, and that is Israel/Jordan and Europe. Saudi? Just don't see it happening; they sponsor/fund some of the same 'operatives' that Iran does. Europe seems fine with all as it is, so I'm fine with them suffering the consequences of their own stupid. That leaves Israel and Jordan. Not sure what Jordan's nuclear capabilities are, but they are well trained/equipped, and not afraid. Israel? They know they are a speck on the map, and have about a 2-3 week lifespan if seriously attacked, so they will retaliate as only one who has nothing to lose will do. Unless we are intent on, or pressured by the global community, being the world police/army, Israel is the one to watch.

Chemical weapons? Yeah, Iran has 'em, and will use 'em if/when desperate enough, even if they take out some of their own.

Seems as though some regard radical islamic terrorist as sane and reasonable people....Think flying planes into the World trade center because they did not have nukes at the time...who does that? They do not think rationally and think they go get their rewards and virgins after killing people. wipe their poop with 1 hand and eat with the other whiles saying pigs are too dirty to eat...sorry that one always gets me. They think being a pedophile and rapist is holy...I am telling you there is noting rational to what they do

they worship the father of lies and chaos... trust nothing they say, they are allowed to lie, as per the filthy book they call their bible instructs.

it is nothing but pig's tolite paper ….this showdown is foretold, and cannot be ignored or reversed....

There's no Iran muke treaty in place now. Iran can persue nukes at it own peril. There are Sanctions in place that are said to increase/widen impact parallel to Irans increased agression. So why has Iran started more blatent attacks (U.S. Drone and 4 foreign flagged oil tankers) that are linked directly them? They just flexing their geolocation muscle? Iran said the drone was in their airspace but nothing on the Tanker attacks. Iran boat crew removed a dud mine from a Tanker. Odd, Iran never said the mine belonged to another country or showed the mine on Iran TV like they have did with drone wreckage. Irans tactics get them some personal attention (boom) but have never received a reduction in Sanctions from such action. It appears they have short memories.

Deje Vu: (1988) We have fought Irans mine laying efforts before, against an Iranian mine laying ship named Iran Ajr. We also destroyed a couple of armed oil platforms and sunk/damaged several Iranian ships and boats.

wildrider666 said:

There's no Iran muke treaty in place now. Iran can persue nukes at it own peril.

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Not so fast!

Till as of right now, Iran is still a signatory of the NPT. So no Nukes for them! So holding them to it with negotiations or force are all options.

On a forum dedicated to an activity that requires patience, risk assessment, and unwavering attention to detail, there are a LOT of people who are missing the Point:

A regime who has PROVEN themselves unstable enough to attack other Nations UNPROVOKED is EXACTLY the kind of regime that would use a nuke First. "Mutually assured destruction" is only a deterrent if all involved have Something to Lose.

Besides, what kind of jacked-up logic says that it's ok for these terrorists to act this way because "they just want a seat at the table"? By that analogy, we should give every whining Brat exactly what they want because they just want it, right? And what would that teach the Brat, and every OTHER Brat watching that cause/effect?

Iran is a cesspool. Most of that region is. They are GLOBAL threats. That map a few posts up is incomplet: the FULL planet is not shown. But it's not much bigger... We're all inter-connected. Sure, if they were stupid enough to launch from within their own borders, they "may" not be able to reach us with it, but they will drag us into a war just the same. More likely, they mobilize the tech and let one of their coward terrorist groups export the bomb. THEN where is your horribly misplaced optimism?

Wtf. These clowns are the same as a meth-head yelling threats from your front lawn at 2am. You gonna give him a gun because he just wants to be treated like a responsible adult? No. Nice response is to keep eyes-on and call the police. But in this scenario, when we ARE the closest thing to the "police", we get to deal with it ourselves.

They Admittedly SHOT DOWN a US MILITARY AIRCRAFT. The only reason they aren't waist-deep in rubble is that it was unmanned, but at what point are we going to say enough is enough?

There is NO defense for their actions. They can keep their sovereignty in that region WITHOUT nukes. They want a seat at the table, they have to EARN it.

They aren't acting like a government that wants what's best for their nation and their people.
They're acting like the unstable regime of thugs they ARE.

Those who would defend them, especially at the expense of this Nation, have priorities completely backwards.