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More Emergency Firepower for Aircrews

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  • Ross7

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    Certainly seems an upgrade from "just" having a 9mm pistol and spare mag(s).

    “The [GAU-5A] and four full magazines, 30 rounds [each], must all fit in the ejection seat survival kit,”...

    The GAU-5A has an effective range of more than 200 meters. With its special locking system created by Cry Havoc, the rifle can be assembled and fired in 60 seconds with no tools. It is a semi-automatic rifle that uses a standard 5.56mm round and is capable of three-round burst.

    https://www.airforcetimes.com/off-d...g-more-emergency-firepower/?utm_source=clavis
     

    SAWMAN

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    This is the REAL GAU-5/GAU-5A that the AF used waaaaay back when. Guess the troops aren't as trustworthy as in the years past. ---- SAWMAN
     

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    Snake-Eyes

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    This is the REAL GAU-5/GAU-5A that the AF used waaaaay back when. Guess the troops aren't as trustworthy as in the years past. ---- SAWMAN

    ?? I'm not sure what the "trustworthy" dig means. We were issued M-4's whenever necessary. Officers and enlisted alike. The article is talking about ejection seat survival kits. I don't remember them having a takedown rifle of any version before now. Other aircrew in combat have plenty of room to store the issued long-guns and ammo on-board. Pistols on your person; rifles stowed in a controlled spot nearby. Pointy-nose drivers don't have that kind of trunk-space.

    I think it's a great idea. Way overdue. Those survival kits aren't built for the "most-likely" day; they're built to help you survive a really shitty day.
     

    wildrider666

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    Sweet. However, I hope it is in addition to and not a replacement for the M9 (M18?). I always thought all aircrew should have a silencer too as it would aid in evasion from the enemy.
     

    SAWMAN

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    No disrespect to the AF guys intended.
    Was just thinking,will a training program take the time to insure that the end users of this,or any other,weapon be taught other things besides how to pull the trigger. What ammo and how many rds will be under the seat ??
    How about the pilots AND crews of other types of aircraft that could possibly ride the A/C to the ground and not exit in a damn seat ?? Especially the rotary wing guys. How about the BUFF crews,the C130 (cargo) guys,the C123 guys,combat tanker guys,and others ?? What firearms are carried in a AC130 on a combat mission ??
    If I had my choice I would take a origional GAU-5 with me. "NO ASSEMBLY REQUIRED" --- SAWMAN
     

    Snake-Eyes

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    If you are going to be issued an M-4, you have to pass the M-4 training course at the range on base. Just like the M-9, or any other weapon platform. You are trained on the systems you will or might possibly use. Not a new concept.

    As I mentioned, the fighters (F-22, etc) seem to be the ones getting these takedowns stored in their ejection seat kits. Since they rarely set foot on badguy soil by themselves, it makes sense the rifle is part of the "just in-case" aircraft gear. For the other platforms (airlift, tanker, bombers, rotary wing) the folks issued an M-4 will take it with them to the aircraft, just like the rest of their gear that day. They'll store it on-board appropriately, just like the rest of their gear, and after the mission, they take it off the aircraft, just like the rest of their gear. It's normal ops. Tedious, but necessary. The gunships are no different.
    Each unit might have slightly different procedures about weapon storage and issue, but the overall concept is the same.

    As for how many rounds, the article said 4-mags, so 120? Same 5.56 NATO stuff any other US military troop would use. The Geneva Conventions have rules against hollow points. Aircrew are exempt for pistol ammo due to anti-hijacking concerns and overpenetration of ball ammo in-flight. When on the ground, ball ammo is the preferred type. But I never swapped mags of 9mm HP for FMJ. If I was forced to use my M-9 on the ground (after my day started as a flight mission), I would use what I was legally armed with that day. Not my damn problem. We aren't flying armories with triple redundant ammo types to make lawyers happy.

    But I digress...

    I miss flying with a gun. Now, whenever I go on a commercial flight, and I have to sanitize my gear for freaking nail clippers and keychain knives, I wonder what it's like for the civilians living in thier fantasy world that all of a sudden we are somehow safer because we disarmed the good guys?
     

    USAF Sarge

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    I did Aircrew Life Support in the AF for 23 years. There were survival kits on heavies in the past operating in certain areas that had AR-7 rifles in survival kits. IIRC the Artic Sled was one of these kits. During my time in survival kits for ejection seat aircraft weren't pack with a firearm.

    Heavy aircraft C-130s etc, the crews are armed with a 9mm in their survival vest holster, and floor loaded M-16 rifles, and sometimes shotguns on the aircraft. I know during DS our AFSOC aircrews carried the M9, M-16, and shotgun durimg combat missions. During OEF and OIF our AFSOC aircrews carried M9 and M16 then M4 rifles. Heavy aircrews have this advantage, whereas fighters don't, hence the reason for wanting to pack a rifle in the survival kit.

    Fighter pilots, will receive weapon specific training in regards to the rifle packed. Since I've been retired 10 years now, I'm not 100% in the loop on what is happening, but a lot of us Life Support retirees keep up with the changes and discuss it amongst ourselves.
     
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    wildrider666

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    Cobra jocks had a similar "space" problem. 2 M16 were folded at front pin and bcg/ch were taped in place, a couple mags and a bandolier was Egress "Kit" and stashed behind pilot rear seat. Each pilot also had a S&W .38spl or 1911A1 (now a M9) in their vest.

    There is a misconception regarding U.S. Military use of hollow point ammo: it is not listed in any of the Geneva Conventions. HP an similar projectiles that flatten in the body are restricted by IV3 of 1899 Hogue Convention which the U.S. did not agree to. The U.S. ratified the 1907 version which does not state hollow point projectiles. However, the U.S. Military did not formally recognize HP use until 9mm M1152, M1153 and two other "not for public discussion" cartridges came into production in 2018.

    Army M17/18 handguns combat ammo is HP.
     
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