APOD Firearms

AR Pistol Shouldering...Legal?

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  • War-Buff

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    Just out of curiousity, do you prefer using a pistol buffer tube and fixed LOP brace?
    The SBA4 is adjustable and uses a standard milspec carbine tube.
    The SBM4 is fixed and uses a pistol buffer tube.

    I'm glad you got something out of this thread.
    I usually just get reminded how stupidly arbitrary the current infringements really are...

    Looks like I'm getting more from this thread with every post. As far as my preference goes, I'm working on determining that now. I've ignored anything having to do with AR pistols for years so am trying to catch up now. I wasn't familiar with the new SBA4 brace but I looked it up and it looks great, thanks. Does it stay within the 13.5" LOP limit when fully extended? I didn't see anything that addressed that.

    Edited to add: I just found this online..."The SBA4 Brace will be 5-position adjustable but will maintain the ATF mandated length of pull to keep your AR pistol legal."
     
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    Snake-Eyes

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    If all of the talk of 13.5" sneaky letters from BATFE direct to manufacturers is accurate, then SB Tactical probably already made the SBA4 "compliant". You could easily contact them to confirm.

    Best of luck with your build.
     

    Fanner50

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    I'm still surprised that the ATF ever issued a letter making braces legal. Hopefully Trump will win again in 2020. If he doesn't, you can bet they won't be legal long after that.
     

    Dan1612

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    Form 1 is about 30 days on efile.
    Even with travel restrictions is easier than trying to decipher what the mood of the ATF may be at any particular time.
     

    FrommerStop

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    If that happens and it is legal any such AR pistols would get rifle tubes on them.
     

    Sandspur6

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    I just bought a SBA4. It came with a card stating that it is BATF compliant. Every time I go to the range, that card will be in my pocket. We'll see how it goes.
     

    Big Shrek

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    In any area where the BATF has given an OPINION instead of an absolute RULING, watch yer butt. It can be reversed as quickly as a motorcycle cop in Gulf Breeze, and be up yer wazoo before ya know it! ;)

    How many got caught be surprise by the Bump Stock Ban?? Cost ya a little, didn't it? Ain't heard of any fires in the records rooms of any of those Bump Stock Producers, either...so BATF can, and probably WILL subpeona those records so they can track down every last one ever sold...

    Same thing needs to be watched for with any other questionable gear...either make it yourself and never let anyone know you've got it...or skip it and roll on.
     

    Snake-Eyes

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    I'm not sure why folks think they need paperwork to "prove" these braces are legal at a range. No RSO has a legal right to flip through your trust paperwork. If they think you're a felon, they can call 911 and look like an idiot. What kind of Gestapo-RSO's are infecting the local ranges?

    As for the ATF "hunting down" bumpfire stocks or any other legally purchased gear: you have ZERO requirement to prove what you did with it. You just can't be physically in possession of it.

    Relocate the item to a free state. Or bury it under an outhouse. Or burn it at the 4th of July BBQ. Who cares.
    Said it before: they should be spending their limited resources hunting actual evil people, not harassing law-abiding Citizens who only "committed a crime" RETROACTIVELY due to shady lawyers and political corruption.
     

    SAWMAN

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    My ATF "blessing" resides in the dedicated cases for my AR pistols.
    My reasoning is to show to a LEO only. I figure that it just might save my pistol from taking a ride downtown until the LEO's relize how effed up they are and attempt to return it in "questionable" condition.
    Nobody else has a right to see it. They'll just have to take my word for it I guess.
    While we are on this subject . . . NOBODY except a LEO with proper credentials has a right to touch my weapon either. Not a RSO . . . nobody. --- SAWMAN
     

    FrommerStop

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    NOBODY except a LEO with proper credentials has a right to touch my weapon either. Not a RSO . . . nobody. --- SAWMAN
    The way a range is to run is supposed to be stated in an SOP, but most clubs do not have such. Probably a good idea relative to insurance.
    RSO-According to NRA protocols RSOs are not to touch anything relative to the shooter except in safety-emergency scenarios. They as a representative of the management can ask you to leave. Also if the item in question is prohibited by general range rules they can ask you to remove it. I see that the RSOs at ERGC openly carry sidearms when on duty. It is legal on private property.
    NRA RSO course material
    The shooter should be instructed to raise his or her non-shooting hand for assistance and maintain control of the gun with the shooting hand.
    The RSO should approach the shooter from a side that allows him or her to be comfortable while keeping the gun pointed downrange.
    As RSO, you should ask the shooter how you can help. Listen to the shooter's problems and ask questions if you do not understand.
    Calmly instruct the shooter through the clearing procedure. You may need to ask the shooter to reposition his body or the gun. Do not touch the shooter without first asking permission. If it is necessary to touch the shooter or gun, tell the shooter where and how you will touch.
    Notes:
    The shooter should be instructed to work the action and unload the ammunition and then inspect it again to ensure it is unloaded.
    If a shooter can't clear the gun, the RSO will have to take control of the gun and clear it, because loaded guns should never leave the firing line
    Many places prohibit full auto weapons for example at PRPC

    Fully automatic shooting is terms for immediate dismissal from the Club. Bumpfire, Slidefire, any similar device or style of firing are not allowed. Bumpfire, Slidefire, any similar device or style of firing are not allowed. Caliber 50BMG firearms with muzzle brakes are not allowed on the range property.
    .....,I just noticed that: drawing to fire is not allowed.
    At PRPC
    Club Board of Directors (BOD) serve as Range Safety Officers and are empowered to enforce all Club rules and regulations.
    The unsafe handling of firearms will not be tolerated and may result in dismissal from the Club.
    The PRPC does not have a requirement for NRA certification to be an RSO. The ERGC does have a requirement that RSOs do have the NRA certification. According to NRA rules one can run a match as an RO without certification by following the rulebook for that particular discipline.
     
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    Zeroed in

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    Envision the "Scales of Justice". Now put your ar pistol brace in 1 pan, and put $200 in the other. Which is the smarter way to go "IF" they ban the pistol braces and you get caught with it? Ahh, what's the $200 you ask? That's what you paid for your SBR tax stamp.
    As screwy as atf and people who want to change the rules are, $200 is a drop in the bucket considering court costs, losing all your guns and labeled a felon if convicted on an illegal $60 stock violation. just my .02 cents.
     

    FrommerStop

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    Envision the "Scales of Justice". Now put your ar pistol brace in 1 pan, and put $200 in the other. Which is the smarter way to go "IF" they ban the pistol braces and you get caught with it? Ahh, what's the $200 you ask? That's what you paid for your SBR tax stamp.
    As screwy as atf and people who want to change the rules are, $200 is a drop in the bucket considering court costs, losing all your guns and labeled a felon if convicted on an illegal $60 stock violation. just my .02 cents.
    I believe that the 200 dollars is the least of it, with it being the trouble of the process. You have to do paper work and likely set up a corporation. Put a 16 inch barrel on and the whole issue goes away. This is all being done with the pistol brace so one does not have to go the paper work/chase route. There have been very few charges/cases made that ended up in court and the one I know of occurred when something was added to the end of the brace and the ATF lost that case.
    The problem will be if the ATF reverses its opinions and there will millions of very angry people. The bumpstock thing got banned in part since it was not as strongly accepted by the shooting public as are the brace pistols. Many ranges in this area outright banned them being fired on their ranges.
    Likely could happen if the democraps get in and then it will really be SHTF as magazines and just about everything else gets banned and we are limited to single shot arms with registration. Places like england even regulate the energy level of air rifles.
     

    FrommerStop

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    ^^^ What part of the 3rd Sentence did you not Comprehend? ^^^
    LOL we all have opinions and I understood very well what you wrote. I simply do you believe your position is the wisest choice. I simply told you why it is not just $200. Fact is in the future even registered short barrel rifles could become illegal. There are few absolute guarantees other then death and taxes.
    There are various levels of safety and security. The safer you make yourself, the greater the cost. One balances risk vs cost when choices are made. Life is choices and you have made yours which is fine. I will make mine.
    To reach absolute safety from the ATF and local law enforcement do not own guns and put 911 on speed dial.
     

    SAWMAN

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    First of all I do not have any "inside info". ATF can and will do what they want to do. They really do not care about the laws of the land. We have seen this lately from the FBI and DOJ. These guys have no bosses. Not even the POTUS.
    If you look around you will get the idea of just how many AR pistol parts are sold. Included in this are the lowers which are the "guns". Start your builds out using a pistol lower and you can build a rifle. Look around at all the AR manufacturers building and selling AR pistols. With all the specialized parts. This,in several different chamberings. Nowadays AR pistols are sold in the LGS's . . AND . . the big box stores like Gander Outdoors. They are all over the internet sales places.
    IMO the AR pistol thing is getting so big that it will be hard to stop the huge rolling ball. The ATF will face the full force of the manufacturers lobby.
    Then there is the shear number of AR pistols that are out there now,and increasing at a staggering rate. I believe that this AR pistol thing is too big to be stopped,even now.
    Of course,on the other hand . . . . . ?? ---- SAWMAN
     

    FLT

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    I haven’t bought a pistol ar , but I’m thinking I might . If they change their minds and decide braces are no longer acceptable their I’ll get rid of brace. The atf and their policy changes are frightening.
     

    MrFish

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    I haven’t bought a pistol ar , but I’m thinking I might . If they change their minds and decide braces are no longer acceptable their I’ll get rid of brace. The atf and their policy changes are frightening.

    Trump isn't any better. Now he doesn't like "silencers", wait till an AR pistol is used and he does the same shit he did with bump stocks. He's the worst president with regard to the 2A.
     

    FrommerStop

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    Trump isn't any better. Now he doesn't like "silencers", wait till an AR pistol is used and he does the same shit he did with bump stocks. He's the worst president with regard to the 2A.
    That is quite a statement. You are saying he is worst than bush senior and bill clinton.
     
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