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AR Pistol Shouldering...Legal?

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  • War-Buff

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    I plan to build my first AR pistol (10.5" .300 BLK) and am wondering which brace to get. I've read aboout ATF rulings that say that shouldering with an unmodified brace does not "make" an NFA item, and I've also read that this pertains only to certain braces. I've also read that this is old news and that ATF has rescinded that ruling, making shouldering illegal. I'm not looking for speculation or opinion here, but am asking whether any member can speak definitively to the issue. TIA.
     

    JWlineman

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    I was going to reply earlier but...to speak "definitively" about the issue would require an interpretation of the law and the verbiage isn't black/white when it comes to braces. The ATF has moved back and forth on the issue.
    My unsolicited advice for those who have a "braced" pistol, enjoy them for their intended purpose and don't post YouTube videos proclaiming your loop holing the ATF.


    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
     

    Little Jack

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    Well, that's a depressing start. I was hoping you might be one to educate me. I guess your reply means the issue is not so black & white as I'd hoped.

    What JW said. When the agency that's in charge can change the "law" with an opinion letter whenever they feel like it, or tap dance around a definition that turns bump stocks into machine guns, there's very little black and white. It sucks.
     

    Fear21

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    Last I heard, the official stance at this time is that shouldering is okay. As stated above, that is subject to change.
     

    Snake-Eyes

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    Pick a brace you like, and contact the company that makes it? That's about as close to "definitive" that you'll get with the current situation.

    The BATFE is under the delusion that it can rewrite laws with the authority of a frustrated parent: "Why? Because I Said So, that's why!"

    One day, karma and US Citizenry will fix that glitch, but until then, as Little Jack stated, "it sucks".

    Just build what you want; putting a brace on a pistol is legal. The day they change their minds, you decide how far you're comfortable being bullied. You decide what's important to you and yours. You decide if someone gets to arbitrarily poof you into a felon for something you did quite legally in the past.

    As for your first question: the SBA4 looks nice.
     

    FrommerStop

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    Probably best to shoot such guns at places with locked gates and pick times when not too many people are about. The major thing is to make sure your brace is compliant with the ATF so that possession of it is ok.
    If the democraps win the next election all bets are off.
     

    stage20

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    I feel from what I read it's legal but as mentioned I wouldn't post videos or take pictures lol
     

    SAWMAN

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    Pick a brace. I use a Sig SB-15 or a SB Tactical SBM4. I consider the latter,better. It is shaped better,is lighter,not as wide,and a couple other pluses I will not mention. Mine are installed on a KAK tube with appropriate spacer for my usage.
    IMPORTANT !! - - -> Install as it is intended to be. DO NOT ALTER IT IN ANY WAY. Leave the parts that are on it,that come with it,exactly as they came. ESPECIALLY the strap.
    Follow the above and use the brace as YOU want to use it. You will be fine. No reason to be paranoid. --- SAWMAN
     

    War-Buff

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    Thanks for the answers and please accept my apology for asking for the "definitive" word. I actually thought it had been settled one way or the other, but I understand their rulings are subject to the whim of the day.

    Regarding brace selection, I was thinking of it in terms of if it was ok to shoulder, it seemed the longer (whether adjustable or not) the better. I've pretty much ignored AR pistols until recently so I really know very little about braces & appreciate the recommendations.

    I'm not worried or paranoid about it, but as I said, I was thinking in terms of whether selecting a longer brace or tube had any merit.
     
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    Little Jack

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    There's another fly in the ointment about LOP. There's a rumor about 13.5" being the "max" for it to still be considered a brace. Some manufacturers set them up in such a way so they won't go any longer. I can't find the publication/letter but I haven't looked really hard. Again.... not definitive.

    With the above said, there are combinations (not necessarily on an AR) that may give you longer than 13.5. For reference an AR with collapsible CTR stock is about 13.5" at the second to last postion on a carbine tube.
     

    FLT

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    I’ve heard that 13.5 was the maximum length, I believe that’s a atf in house opinion. But I wouldn’t chance having one any longer . In fact I’d stop at 13 and 1/4 just to be on the safe side. I know many folks aren’t afraid of the atf , but I’m not one of them. They can turn your life up side down at will.
     

    FrommerStop

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    I’ve heard that 13.5 was the maximum length, I believe that’s a atf in house opinion. But I wouldn’t chance having one any longer . In fact I’d stop at 13 and 1/4 just to be on the safe side. I know many folks aren’t afraid of the atf , but I’m not one of them. They can turn your life up side down at will.
    I am afraid of any federal agency, especially when they use three letters like FBI, CIA, NSA, ATF, DEA, the IRS for sure, etc.
     

    stage20

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    I’ve heard that 13.5 was the maximum length, I believe that’s a atf in house opinion. But I wouldn’t chance having one any longer . In fact I’d stop at 13 and 1/4 just to be on the safe side. I know many folks aren’t afraid of the atf , but I’m not one of them. They can turn your life up side down at will.
    Guilty until proven innocent. Traffic stops are similar. They just give you a court date and let the judge decide. They do not know or can't decipher the law because they are ignorant or the law has a grey area
     

    FrommerStop

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    This is the first I've heard of the 13.5 inch rule. Anyone have an example?
    This link gives some information on that
    https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2...-loss-in-ohio-short-barrel-rifle-prosecution/

    PS as of 2018 and perhaps there are public opinion letters now available in 2019.
    There were a couple of problems with the case against Wright, however. First, the ATF has never issued an official public opinion letter stating that AR pistols with such accessories — cheek rests, pistol braces, etc. — must have a length of pull of no more than 13.5 inches to avoid being considered an SBR.

    The ATF had communicated that fact to various manufacturers in private opinion letters concerning their specific products over the years (and some of those companies have chosen to make those letters public), but nothing has ever been communicated to the general gun-buying public by the agency.

    As a result, the defense argued that Wright had no reasonable way of knowing about the 13.5-inch length of pull limit. There’s a Supreme Court precedent in Staples v. United States that found a gun owner has to know that his firearm has characteristics that bring it under NFA regulation to be guilty of a crime.
     
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    SAWMAN

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    As described in my post #10,my pistols all have a LOP <13.5" . . . . . soooooooooo.
    What other hoops am I gonna have to jump through ?? I absolutely have no intent to break any law. --- SAWMAN
     

    War-Buff

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    Thanks for all the comments and a great discussion....I hope it continues. ATF sure doesn't seem to make things easy, but as far as braces go, I'm going with the SB Tactical SBM4 for my AR pistol build.
     

    Snake-Eyes

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    ... as far as braces go, I'm going with the SB Tactical SBM4 for my AR pistol build.

    Just out of curiousity, do you prefer using a pistol buffer tube and fixed LOP brace?
    The SBA4 is adjustable and uses a standard milspec carbine tube.
    The SBM4 is fixed and uses a pistol buffer tube.

    I'm glad you got something out of this thread.
    I usually just get reminded how stupidly arbitrary the current infringements really are...
     

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