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Question on whether a 6.5 or 308 for long range

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  • duckhunter

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    Wow! this is a lot of info to absorb. I will say since I have a ar 15 and ar10 the 6.5 intrigues me more and more. Thanks everyone for the information. It is nice to have a sounding board with people who want to help.
     

    FrommerStop

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    Join the wave, go with the 6.5 Grendel in AR15 platform. I just completed my build, went with a 24" spiral ss barrel. I'll get to the range with it sometime soon, I hope.
    Same 6.5cm bc projectiles, a bit slower due to powder capacity. It's a 200-800yd cartridge, and will do what you want at 500yds easy peasy.

    Abstract From The Wikipedia Site:

    Performance
    Proponents assert that the Grendel is a middle ground between the 5.56×45mm NATO and the 7.62×51mm NATO. It retains greater terminal energy at extended ranges than either of these cartridges due to its higher ballistic coefficient.[2] For example, the 123 gr (8.0 g) 6.5 Grendel has more energy and better armor penetration at 1,000 meters than the larger and heavier 147 gr (9.5 g) M80 7.62 NATO round.

    In order to obtain ballistics that are superior to the 7.62×51mm cartridge, a weapon with a longer barrel and firing a heavier bullet is necessary. To achieve the same results from shorter length barrels, even heavier bullets are needed.
    I have a 6.5 g on the AR15 which I have not really used much yet with a spiral 18 inch barrel from Alexander Arms. The point of an AR15 is that it be handy and a 24 inch barrel while nice off a shooting bench is not so handy in vehicles and other scenarios. 800 yards, well yes it will get out there, but I am interested in what kind of wounds it makes at 200-300 yards. If you want to hit longer range things real hard in the AR with 24 inch barrels for me I would go AR10 in 6.5 Creedmore.
    For me an AR's role besides having fun at the range with is for self defense under extreme conditions that I pray never happen. Normally on my place I would choose a 12 ga pump action shotgun.
     

    Little Jack

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    Devil's advocate here....

    Have you tried shooting 500yds with what you've got?

    If you want to shoot that far an AR in .223/5.56 will do it fine, Grendel will do it flatter/harder.

    If all you're doing is poking holes in paper for fun, you don't have to have the hardest, fastest, flattest shooting gun out there. Figure out what your gun likes, figure out your drops and it'll probably get pretty easy to hit consistently at 500 without a long action/6.xxx/norwegian moose slayer.
     

    SAWMAN

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    Jester, you need a new and better scope. One with target turrets that will up-click 10 inches @ 1000yds.
    And my point is . . . . ? . . . . oh,never mind.
    And - - -> how much flatter will a 6.5G shoot at 500yds over a 5.56,62gr BTHP.
    And my next point is . . . . ? . . . . never mind again.
    Bottom line,I am just not "young enough" to own a 6.5C or G. Now a 260AI would spin my prop. But then I just shot myself in the foot about the "scope with target turrets" thing.
    OH WELL !! --- SAWMAN
     
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    wildrider666

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    Any justification that a person comes up with as a basis to buy a new gun is acceptable! Never even wisper that one tool can do multiple jobs or our wives will cut our gun allowance. Lol
     

    Jester896

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    Jester, you need a new and better scope. One with target turrets that will up-click 10 inches @ 1000yds.--- SAWMAN

    yeah...that NSX I use is junk...I really do need something better

    And - - -> how much flatter will a 6.5G shoot at 500yds over a 5.56,62gr BTHP.
    --- SAWMAN

    I can give you the formula if you would like...math isn't my strong suite
     

    Little Jack

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    Jester, you need a new and better scope. One with target turrets that will up-click 10 inches @ 1000yds.
    And my point is . . . . ? . . . . oh,never mind.
    And - - -> how much flatter will a 6.5G shoot at 500yds over a 5.56,62gr BTHP.
    And my next point is . . . . ? . . . . never mind again.
    Bottom line,I am just not "young enough" to own a 6.5C or G. Now a 260AI would spin my prop. But then I just shot myself in the foot about the "scope with target turrets" thing.
    OH WELL !! --- SAWMAN

    Sorry, broad generalizations leave the door open for this.

    Drop at shorter ranges is less of a factor than at longer. But that is based on numerous factors besides just the bullet choice.

    But you knew that..... right? Did you have a number you were looking for?

    I'm sure there's a load of .224 diameter bullet that drops less than one or several of the grendel options(have we suggested valkyrie yet?)
     

    FLT

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    Hell, I can’t see past 300 yards. That and it’s 176 yards to the far side of my food plot. Those facts kind of limit my long range shooting needs.
     

    Zeroed in

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    I have a 6.5 g on the AR15 which I have not really used much yet with a spiral 18 inch barrel from Alexander Arms. The point of an AR15 is that it be handy and a 24 inch barrel while nice off a shooting bench is not so handy in vehicles and other scenarios. 800 yards, well yes it will get out there, but I am interested in what kind of wounds it makes at 200-300 yards. If you want to hit longer range things real hard in the AR with 24 inch barrels for me I would go AR10 in 6.5 Creedmore.
    For me an AR's role besides having fun at the range with is for self defense under extreme conditions that I pray never happen. Normally on my place I would choose a 12 ga pump action shotgun.

    Hmm, I don't believe I read anything in the OP that he was looking for a vehicle gun in 6.5. Maybe I failed to read between the lines like you must have done?
    But it sure is good, this is just your opinion that you believe I should have went with a shorter barrel. And it is MY preference, uninvited as much as it was, thanks for your input, for what you think my preference in a shorter barrel should have been. And I have a RPR 6.5 CM, so no need in an ar10 6.5cm.
     

    SAWMAN

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    Didn't google,just shot enough of the faster 223Rem (at 5.56 pressures and speeds) to get familiar with the JBM Calculations feedback.
    Generally speed means more than B.C. The .264" bullets do not have an exclusive right to the long range game or high(er) B.C.'s.Take a look at the .284" 162gr A-Max driven at 7mm Rem Mag speeds (which I am also very familiar with).
    This is why I say that a 22-250Rem,with a 1:9 twist,shooting the >76gr bullets would be a great "longranger".
    By all means,if you want a 6.5C get it. But be prepared to explain it (not defend it) when someone asks "WHY". THE 6.5C is just OK at the longer ranges. Nothing spectacular. You can quite easily tell this by how long some of the sililar chamberings have been around (like the 6.5X55,and 260Rem) and never gained as much fan fair as the 6.5C. Good on it. It has made a whole bunch of people rich and a whole bunch of people poor.
    The 6.5C came about by some marketing genius. For what they do,the 224Valkyrie is just as good if not better.
    If you feel the need for a 6.5C,by all means get one or two. But I will never be convinced that it is the "holy grail" in the world of long range shooting. BTW . . . how many 1000yd matches have been won using a 6.5C as compaired to other chamberings ?? --- SAWMAN
     

    Daezee

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    4 shots 6.5 CM at 300yd. The shot near the top of the pic was the 1st shot of 5 in the magazine. I moved the impact to be more in the center of the plate and then fired the other 4 shots in the magazine. TC Performance Center LRR, 140gr Hornady BTHP match bullets, my reloads, Nikon X1000 4-16x set on 16x. My Nikon became defective (the zero index rings were moving, both elevation and windage). I'd received it back from Nikon repairing it and was re-sighting in the CM. I don't always shoot that good.

    fullsizeoutput_41c3.jpeg
     

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    Jevaughn

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    I've owned a .308 for ages and consider myself a good, not excellent, shooter. Went plinking with a friend of mine who had a 6.5 creedmore that in many regards, including brand and barrel length, was the same as mine. Big difference being age of the weapon.
    Here's my take on it shooting out to approximately 550-600 yards.
    At 100 yards, both rifles held sub MOA. At 300 yards, there was little difference between sizes of the groups. We took turns getting from a bench with both rifles. It was a great day with little wind. We started to stretch out further and that's when we started noticing differences. The 6.5cm was holding tighter groups. Some of the difference could be ammo related, optics, trigger pull, any number of things, but the further we reached out, the more the advantage went to the 6.5. when the wind picked up, it was definitely a big difference. Hands down, the 6.5 handled wind drift better at any range more than 300 yards. Regardless, both calibers are excellent shooters, and much to my surprise match ammo for the 6.5 was actually a little cheaper than .308 at academy.
    My takeaway: the 6.5 is slightly more accurate at longer ranges if both rifles are pretty much identical. I've never had the opportunity to shoot past 700 yards or so with my .308 and at that range a .308 can still hit your target if you take the time to learn your weapon. If you want access to cheap surplus ammo, . 308 is great, but that surplus ammo isn't going to make a single jagged hole in paper at 400-500 yards. Best I've done with surplus is get all 5 shots on paper.
    Due to popularity, the 6.5 creedmore has a lot of options and your better ammo is on par or sometimes cheaper than similar offerings in .308. But. .308 is usually easier to find, especially in hunting cartridges in my experience.
    Either way, both are great options and with practice will net similar results with the 6.5 creedmore offering an advantage to wind drift.
    I very much enjoyed shooting the 6.5, but I'm not going to trade my trusty .308 in anytime soon

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
     

    realstreet

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    I have a really nice custom build rifle for long range it’s a 308 if interested pm me. Thanks
     
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    FLT

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    Well , that settles it . I’m a fair shot , I think I’ll just buy myself a 6.5C and move on up to the expert class .
    :wink::wink:
     

    joekocon

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    If you wanted a great "off the shelf" rifle, please consider a 7mm x 08 caliber. There are numerous "factory" rifles to choose from.

    "Over-n-out!"
    Joe K

    P.S. I believe the military considers a .308 a 1,000 yd. caliber (M14), and this would allow you a ton of bullet combinations. I used a 163 grain BTHP! Excellent.
     
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