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  • RackinRay

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    In case you were tempted to check the new ferry service out, check the "prohibited items" list if you CCW:

    https://www.cruisepb.com/faq/

    “Are there items that are prohibited from being brought on board?
    Yes. Firearms, fireworks, and fuel are prohibited from being brought onboard.”
     

    RackinRay

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    True; but why should I have to risk, and possibly endure a hassle on this, when previous court decisions on CCW in NPS parks have ruled that carry on park property is within the legal rights of license holders of the state the park is in. I believe it is an attempt to evade the law by people not supportive of concealed carry rights, and that the NPS has a duty as the federal contracting authority to ensure concessionaires are operating within those laws and guidelines the service has to follow.

    Not having any trust in the local Park Super I have sent an email to NPS, and am lining up my facts to feed the issue to my Representative if they fail to respond.
     

    Snake-Eyes

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    It's not "prohibited by federal law" to carry on a boat, correct? So nowhere in the Florida statutes is it illegal to carry concealed on that boat.

    Now, if they discover that you're armed, they can ask you to leave. Once they tell you that you're trespassing, if you refuse to leave, that's a different crime (and one you'd be guilty of committing while armed).

    However, if you're doing your responsible thing and carrying concealed: 1) they would never know and 2) you haven't broken the law.

    Regardless, it's a ridiculous sign/policy. It will deter ZERO criminals. In fact, it may even Encourage some acts because the place self-identifies as a "gun-free zone" where the feeble-minded let their guard down because they feel safer.

    Even more reason to carry concealed there...
     

    tros6t

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    It's not "prohibited by federal law" to carry on a boat, correct? So nowhere in the Florida statutes is it illegal to carry concealed on that boat.

    Now, if they discover that you're armed, they can ask you to leave. Once they tell you that you're trespassing, if you refuse to leave, that's a different crime (and one you'd be guilty of committing while armed).

    However, if you're doing your responsible thing and carrying concealed: 1) they would never know and 2) you haven't broken the law.

    Regardless, it's a ridiculous sign/policy. It will deter ZERO criminals. In fact, it may even Encourage some acts because the place self-identifies as a "gun-free zone" where the feeble-minded let their guard down because they feel safer.

    Even more reason to carry concealed there...

    True.
     

    RackinRay

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    It's not "prohibited by federal law" to carry on a boat, correct? So nowhere in the Florida statutes is it illegal to carry concealed on that boat.

    Now, if they discover that you're armed, they can ask you to leave. Once they tell you that you're trespassing, if you refuse to leave, that's a different crime (and one you'd be guilty of committing while armed).

    However, if you're doing your responsible thing and carrying concealed: 1) they would never know and 2) you haven't broken the law.

    Regardless, it's a ridiculous sign/policy. It will deter ZERO criminals. In fact, it may even Encourage some acts because the place self-identifies as a "gun-free zone" where the feeble-minded let their guard down because they feel safer.

    Even more reason to carry concealed there...

    My original intent was to warn folks that would rather not deal with it; but I feel that I must have not explained my irritation with this fully enough, so let me try to clarify in response to the above and previous "concealed is concealed" responses.

    First, unlike privately owned property in which I would agree with the above comments; as I believe in property rights and the law is clear there this is federal property. This is on a boat owned by the NPS and bought with federal funds. This topic sort of HAS been adjudicated; and per previous court decision, NPS is not allowed to restrict CCW rights within the parks.

    Due to this, I do NOT believe that the operator has the right to ask me to leave; and that this firearms restriction is from lack, possibly deliberately, of proper oversight by NPS. Therefore, I am raising the issue with NPS, and my federal representatives if needed, to get it removed and the situation correctly aligned with the laws and court decision NPS has to follow on the parks proper.

    This makes me think of the old phrase: "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke"
    Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/edmund_burke_377528

    This has made me reconsider my irritation on the Bay Center and Seville Theater concessionaire with similar restrictions, to a greater degree of intrusive enforcement, and Monday I will seek a civil rights attny to address those issues with FSS 790.33. Any interested that would consider joining a class action on that issue, please PM me only your interest so I will have some idea of possible number should the lawyer have any interest since the more involved, the higher the recovery, and perhaps the more willing an attny would be to engage.
     
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    FrommerStop

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    First I looked up the service
    Who will operate Pensacola Bay Cruises ?
    On March 5, 2019, the National Park Service and HMS Ferries, Inc. signed a 10-year concessions contract for the operation of Pensacola Bay Cruises.
    So it is likely the private company Pensacola Bay Cruises that is writing the rules. I am not sure of what imput the national park service has relative to say over that policy. I would like to the see the NPS reply, if there is one.
     

    RackinRay

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    The NPS, as the federal contracting agency, has the responsibility to ensure all contracts and operations comply to all federal law, and regulations, pursuant to the Federal Acquisition Regulations (FAR) at a minimum....which reminds me of a string to pull; the contracting officer over this services contract! Thanks!

    I will post any response to this in this thread.
     

    Snake-Eyes

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    Copy all. Yeah, that's bogus for an NPS contract to conflict so blatantly.

    Your course of action is better because it would aim to stop the problem at its source, versus the other avenue of having a CWL-holder illegally removed and/or arrested and THEN having to sue to have the policy changed and his/her criminal record expunged.

    Personally, a "no guns allowed" sign just tells me: 1) the owners are idiots, 2) criminals see better odds, 3) more reason to be armed, so 4) reconsider whether my money and time is better spent elsewhere.
     

    RackinRay

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    Here's an idea.

    Never ever get on one of there boats. Pretty Simple!

    Guess I am stubborn. I believe it is wrong; and have decided I will not suffer the aggravation of not being able to use govt owned venues, when their exclusion of CCW is really prohibited in some law (or court decision) that dictates that I do not have to surrender my rights!

    Since it looks unlikely I will be able to move where I want to, then I will fight for my legal rights here. Stay off the ferry if you choose, or carry and count on having to deal with the resulting hassle if discovered. I prefer to address it and correct the situation.
     

    FrommerStop

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    Guess I am stubborn. I believe it is wrong; and have decided I will not suffer the aggravation of not being able to use govt owned venues, when their exclusion of CCW is really prohibited in some law (or court decision) that dictates that I do not have to surrender my rights!

    Since it looks unlikely I will be able to move where I want to, then I will fight for my legal rights here. Stay off the ferry if you choose, or carry and count on having to deal with the resulting hassle if discovered. I prefer to address it and correct the situation.

    You make a good point.
     

    Snake-Eyes

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    MAXman

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    Wether or not I think the rule is bs, it’s all academic to me anyways.

    This is rediculous 21AD0483-9A31-49E3-AF39-DDF7E2C4165B.png
     

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