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End of the Trail Estate Planning for your guns, ammo and gear.

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  • wildrider666

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    Most of us don't know when we will kick the bucket. Some may get ball park medical time frames while others just get older and know real old age is not kind to mind or body. So, what are the Pros and Cons to various ways and times to dispense with firearms and related property (I'll just say guns from now on)? I don't think there is a one size fits all except "By Law" which means the issue is ignored and State Law applies and now it someone else's burden. The more you own the more complicated the issue. Does surviving spouse or NOK know much about guns? What does you wife do with 27 ARs or a S&W Collection? Maybe 1 or 2 very valuable pieces among a dozen? Gun stores, auctions, spouse sell each one individually? Dispense in a Will? Pack and ship? How about gear tossed in boxes for auction? People have friends but selling dozens of guns they don't know much about is problematical.
    How about ammo that only you know the history of and have a "large stockpile" of main calibers and +-1K of dozens of other calibers?

    I know the short answer is to have an open invitation for Forum Member to come to a Fine Irish Wake and pass it all out as Door Prizes!

    I love my stuff as much as anyone loves their's but we can't take it with us. I really don't want to leave such a burden either.
     

    SC-Texas

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    A gun trust is a great way to distribute your firearms and accessories

    Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
     

    Plinker

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    I like the way you think!

    Been dwelling on this a bit myself and compared to most here, I don’t have that many weapons. As it stands now, I’m considering some sort of drawing for nephews, neices, brother & sister in laws & long time friends.

    My kids & son in law & Daughter in law get first picks and thats a seperate event.
    They will know that I prefer to spread my passion as a piece of myself with this gesture. If at some point in time they sell it or give it away, I’m already OK with that and will let them know my feelings up front.
    I provide some history and relate stories if applicable.
    After that, as mentioned before, its theirs to do with as they wish.

    Interested in others thoughts (funny or serious) on this subject.
     

    Murfpcola

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    My wife and I had wills drawn up and other estate planning about a year ago. We have young children and we put in there that if something happens to both of us then my guns will be split between our 2 kids when our youngest is 25 as long as they are both legal to own firearms. If one is not then all of the guns go to the other child. If neither child is legal to own then all of the guns go to my brothers. Guns are not to be sold to give cash to someone who is not legal to own a firearm.

    We have plenty of insurance to cover the raising of the kids. Just my little input.
     

    FLT

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    I find it worrisome, but I don’t have any answers yet. It’s time that I come up with a plan , I thought about selling everything except 1 , rifle ,pistol and shot gun. But I don’t know if I’d be happy doing that. Things that are priceless to you might just be a burden to someone else.
     

    Snake-Eyes

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    Ask yourself what you really "want", and that should guide you.

    What I mean:
    - if you want to draw your last breath in your vault room surrounded by a wall of weapons, then don't sell anything, store them at your home, and distribute them via the Will.
    - if you want to pass down a collection/armory to someone or multiple someones, then start talking with them now. Show/teach them about the weaponswhile you're still able to. Go shooting, do some reloading, etc. It'll generate some nice memories for all involved, and they'll be more likely to hold onto some/all of it after you pass (hence, the point of what you "wanted" in the first place).
    - if you just want some kick-ass doomsday vault of goodness preserved in case of Skynet becoming self-aware, then plan accordingly: creative location, covert supply runs to it, encoded directions/instructions to be delivered in 20-years like that Western Union guy in Back To The Future II. (Hmmm, that one sounds fun)
    - if you don't care, just as long as they don't goto "person X" or don't get sold to "smarmy pawn shop jerk Y", then mention that in your Will and rest easy.

    If you plan to leave the items with/for someone you Care about, then I recommend a note/letter to explain each item, written for a non-gun person. Don't leave them having to Google everything during a time of grief. Three-hole punched in a slim binder: easy to add/remove as your collection grows/shrinks. Store the binder someplace secure, probably with your Will? Handwritten is best (sentimental touch AND no computer trail), but if you write like an MD writes prescriptions, then type it out. Explain each item "rifle with walnut stock, Ruger 10/22 serial no 123XYZ, caliber 22 Long Rifle (22LR), worth $300 in 2019 dollars as-is"... maybe give a story about where you got it, does it have any special meaning, how does it shoot, what ammo does it like, any custom modifications by you or an official business/gunsmith, etc. That info/letter will help the person to either keep it, or sell it and not get ripped off. Heck, we "know" that you buy a used gun, not the story, but someone who had that kind of backstory/history on a family weapon would probably have an advantage to make a sale, if needed.

    Regardless, unless you're 100% sure that you can come back as a ghost/etc, you have no real control over what people do with those items after you're gone. So do your best, then don't worry about it.
     

    War-Buff

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    I have no one to leave my stuff to, so my current plan is for a trusted and considerably younger friend to take possession of my guns, reloading stuff, etc. and liquidate all for my widow. He is to get a commission on proceeds (which I doubt he would take) and his choice of one gun from the group (I'm sure he'd love to have my S&W Model 52) for his efforts. Maybe not the best plan, as there is always the possibility that he might kick off before me, but that's what I have at this time. Additionally, I've been selling off some of the stuff that I never use.
     

    Realtor

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    A number of years ago, I came across this in a Real Estate transaction. The Gunner passed away, however before he did, he made a log book of sorts, organized with serial number or particular markings and caliber. He had the price he paid for it and about 6 months before he passed, he reviewed it all and had hand written noted of their current approx.. value. The more interesting/rare guns, he described where they came from and a little of their history.

    Extremely detailed, when he addressed the ammo, this is not verbatim, but I read something like this…

    “All these wonderful instruments (Guns) of freedom are useless without the Ammo. The Ammo is useless with the Guns. If you don’t have BOTH, it’s over at that point, so…”

    My point is, I don’t have anything “valuable” per say, but my Son should appreciate this little book in the safe someday… The inventory sort of surprised me….
     

    FrankT

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    I have no one to leave my stuff to, so my current plan is for a trusted and considerably younger friend to take possession of my guns, reloading stuff, etc. and liquidate all for my widow. He is to get a commission on proceeds (which I doubt he would take) and his choice of one gun from the group (I'm sure he'd love to have my S&W Model 52) for his efforts. Maybe not the best plan, as there is always the possibility that he might kick off before me, but that's what I have at this time. Additionally, I've been selling off some of the stuff that I never use.

    I did the same except with a trusted FFL. Just the wife and I, she does not like guns so I had to make a plan.
     

    Telum Pisces

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    It's yours and please decide what you want to do with it before you go. Don't leave it up to others that are left! That's all I'll say. Spell it out and file it away in a trust or filed with the probate system where you live! That way it's with a third party not in with everyone having to deal with it afterwards.
     

    SAWMAN

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    Damn Frank,you told me that I could have all your stuff if I promised to sell it over on PFF and give the proceeds to that waitress that works the Tiki Hut at AJ's.--- SAWMAN
     

    wildrider666

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    More than likely, I'll do a combination of things. Sell some guns that have no family interest, use the Will for specific gifts and a Trust for Heirloom Firearms that I desire to available for use and passed down for generations.
    I've never looked at a NFA Trust but guess regular gun Trust would be close without the prints/photo. That would retain group ownership, group access and property distribution among Trustees. I'm not sure how the docs are written and what general topics covered. I see a need for:
    Trustee bloodline requirements.
    Trustee Rights, Trustee Secession Rights.
    Trustee Responsibilitie, Security, Care and Mintenance
    Temporary Suspension of Trustee Rights.
    Causes for Permanent Revocation of Trustee(s) Rights.
    Disqualifications from being a Trustee.
    Provisions to add/remove firearms and items to/from the Trust.
    Provisions for Temporary non bloodline Trustee(s).
    Trust Documentation: Master Inventory List, Primary Custody List,
    Temporary Custody Log(s) & Forms, Retention of Records.
    Trust Funds, Responsiblity, Accounting, Depoits & Disbursements.
    Provisions for Damaged, Lost or Stolen Trust Firearm(s) or Items.
    Trust Prohibitions on all forms of imagery, media or reference to Trust firearms and Items.
    Destruction prior to and in lieu of Law mandated registration, restriction, "Buy Back" or Ban.
    Disposition of Trust assets when there are no qualified Trustees.

    What else would/could be included?
     

    Snake-Eyes

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    wild,

    That seems like a lot of paperwork hoops to self-impose on future generations. The Trustee pool may be large enough, but if none of them want the hassle, then it's a moot point. For example: if too many restrictions on "media reference", then how can they sell some of the items? Custody logs and records? What if they no longer have the desire/ability/space/finances to even house the collection?

    My opinion.

    Write your wishes in a letter. Speak with the person/people you want to trust with the collection. Help them see it as a gift/legacy and not a burden. Then leave them the flexibility to handle it; don't micro-manage your descendants' decision-tree.

    For me, I've already made it clear to my parents that I don't expect a single penny if they get struck by lightning at the same time tomorrow. I also made it clear that I have zero emotional attachment to many of their current assets. I fully expect them to enjoy their retirement and do as they wish, but they shouldn't expect me to take up their hobbies and time-sucks after they pass. I will help liquidate as necessary for their grandkids' futures, etc, but I am not them. They understand this, and our family has discussed "what-if" scenarios in a more realistic light.

    I would love to leave a doomsday vault for my future descendants, but I realize the problem as I get older:
    The trick is finding someone who shares the same interests and values AND who will outlive you AND who will find someone else with the same interests and values AND who will outlive Them.

    Since I can't control more than one step of that chain, I'll just focus on that one step: my immediate beneficiaries in the event my jet-pack joyride augers in.
     

    SC-Texas

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    More than likely, I'll do a combination of things. Sell some guns that have no family interest, use the Will for specific gifts and a Trust for Heirloom Firearms that I desire to available for use and passed down for generations.
    I've never looked at a NFA Trust but guess regular gun Trust would be close without the prints/photo. That would retain group ownership, group access and property distribution among Trustees. I'm not sure how the docs are written and what general topics covered. I see a need for:
    Trustee bloodline requirements.
    Trustee Rights, Trustee Secession Rights.
    Trustee Responsibilitie, Security, Care and Mintenance
    Temporary Suspension of Trustee Rights.
    Causes for Permanent Revocation of Trustee(s) Rights.
    Disqualifications from being a Trustee.
    Provisions to add/remove firearms and items to/from the Trust.
    Provisions for Temporary non bloodline Trustee(s).
    Trust Documentation: Master Inventory List, Primary Custody List,
    Temporary Custody Log(s) & Forms, Retention of Records.
    Trust Funds, Responsiblity, Accounting, Depoits & Disbursements.
    Provisions for Damaged, Lost or Stolen Trust Firearm(s) or Items.
    Trust Prohibitions on all forms of imagery, media or reference to Trust firearms and Items.
    Destruction prior to and in lieu of Law mandated registration, restriction, "Buy Back" or Ban.
    Disposition of Trust assets when there are no qualified Trustees.

    What else would/could be included?
    That's what I'm talking about. Use the trust to d
    Manage the assets.

    Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
     

    Idoono

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    I have been considering the very same thing. What to do with my stuff when I am gone. Anyone know where to get some good, RELIABLE info on Gun Trusts? Much appreciated.

    Idoono
     

    wildrider666

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    wild,
    That seems like a lot of paperwork hoops to self-impose on future generations. ................
    Since I can't control more than one step of that chain, I'll just focus on that one step: my immediate beneficiaries in the event my jet-pack joyride augers in.

    You make excellent points throughout. Discovered my analality was overflowing the more I listed. Left it as food for thought, further consideration. I was building a FailSafe Doc to protect the firearms and the "Rights" of those that wish to partake of it, even from each other. I don't want my toddler Grandkids to not have ARs if production/sale is stopped, and don't want them to pay equivalent prices like our current NFA machinegun for a shot out AR. I have already started to pass some on, I'll sell some as the market allows, the rest can go by pick rotation and they can do with those as they please.

    I've been the Executor on two Estates (one friend and Wife's Grandmother) both had a Will but one just named me as Executor and not much else. I'll just say nice folks can become vultures before the first handful of dirt is tossed. Also, my brother in law passed in Dec without a Will and the Estate is still getting settled 4 months later.
     

    Loki

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    I hope my wife does not mind me giving everything to the forum members, well certain ones...

    Frank - Please keep the Miley Cyrus pictures and videos or burn them. I take no offense at all to you doing that instead of leaving them to me. :wave:
     
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