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Anyone . . . AR With More POWER ??

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  • SAWMAN

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    Got new flyer from the guys st KAK Industries. They are offering a 450Marlin and a 300WSM upper for the larger framed AR guns.
    The 450Marlin has been around for some time now. It is basically a 45-70 with a much stronger/thicker web so that the case pressure levels can be increased. Also it is belted to prevent it from being loaded into a 45-70 chamber. It produces the same power levels as a 45-70 loaded to the Ruger #1 and Mauser action levels. HOT !! Wondering how an AR with a belted chamber will work ??
    Being .458" bore there is a good variety of bullets offered including solid copper and brass. For me it would be no all lead due to the gas system of the AR.
    Then there is the 300WSM offering. I have been researching this one. It is right up there with the 300Win Mag. Actually a little over depending on the load. It's clear advantage would be for the AR shooter doing the extreme distance thing. (forget them expensive NEMO's) Some of the smaller bore WSM/WSSM's have a problem with the AR action reliably chambering a round. But this mainly shows up with the 223 and 243 guns. The question for some would be loading the 300WSM to mag length,how big (long) of a bullet could you use and still fit into the mag. For the longer ranges most would want to use a 190 and above.
    Mags . . ?? . . there are no dedicated mags for these guns. The 308 sized MagPul's are suggested,but only a "few" rounds can be loaded before the mag starts to buldge and it will not insert or drop free. ( Kinda like using the MagPul 5.56 mags for my 6.8SPC. I can only load 6 or 7 rds in a 10 shot mag.)
    Without offering a MagPul or AICS type mag to use with these uppers I do not believe that many will buy.
    Also,KAK sez that these uppers will simply pin on a DPMS style lower. GREAT !! But I am wondering about the effects of recoil. There is quite a bit of case head thrust with both of these chamberings. We'll see . . . long term. --- SAWMAN
     

    John B.

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    I've been following KAK as they build/test these.... definitely interesting. Not practical, by any means due to some of the reasons you stated. What advantages does the 450marlin have over the 450 bushmaster or 458 socom?

    They will sell a few of each, but they won't catch on in this saturated market.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
     

    FrommerStop

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    Making a new magazine can be a big deal and best left in the hands of experts that work for places like magpul.
    MagPul's are suggested,but only a "few" rounds can be loaded before the mag starts to bulge and it will not insert or drop free.
    Just about any machinist can rechamber a barrel, machine the bolt and adjust the gas port to work with something like the 300 WSM. I certainly would like to see people offering rifles in such calibers, but do not plan on being a guinea pig to buy the first one off the line. In fact it is a solution for problems that I do not have. A .308 is sufficient for anything that I need to do.
     

    SAWMAN

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    The 450Marlin puts out quite s bit more power than the 458SOCOM or 450Bushmaster. More than the 50Beowolf also.
    In a falling block action the 450Marlin can be loaded hotter than the hottest 45-70 due to the design of the brass even though the case capacity is the same. That certinly (in the least) equates to more energy transfer at longer distances. Or confidence at killing a targeted animal further out.
    The 300WSM would put out even more power and be "user friendly" at considerably longer ranges. A plus would be a much flatter trajectory and a great choice of bullets. --- SAWMAN
     

    SAWMAN

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    I pretty much figured that you would find something John.
    Wasn't it you that tried to tell me that a 458SOCOM was as powerful as a 45-70 ??
    How about this - - -> A 450Marlin OR a 45-70 easily produces more power than a 458SOCOM,450Bushmaster,50Beowulf,.499LW,etc. if fired in anything. That includes a AR or a Ruger #1.
    In my above I was using a falling block action to try to make my point in re. to the strength of the brass. Sorry that I was not more clear. --- SAWMAN
     

    StorMay05

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    I know .300 WSM uppers we’re available a few years back I by a few manufacturers. From my understanding they didn’t cycle well, and could break bolt faces. If I remember reading right you could load heavier Bullets to mag length, I think 170 gr was max.

    For anyone curious Olympic arms made a .300 OSSM ar-15 upper, and one manufacturer still makes it. From what I’ve read it’s between a 30-06 and .300 WSM on velocity. It ain’t cheap though.
     

    SAWMAN

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    Would believe the bolt face thing. The WSM's are the same size which is . . . BIG !! Bigger than a 308Win buy quite a bit. The bolt face would have to be pretty thin to work in a 308 sized BCG I would think.
    The OSSM has been around for quite some time but I do not know anyone that owns one and have never gotten any feedback as to how they run. --- SAWMAN
     

    FrommerStop

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    I suspect that making a completely new augmented upper and lower from the ground up is next, means larger diameter and longer bolts, reinforced large lowers etc to handle such rounds. But these would likely still use a lot of standard AR internal parts. This would be a way for the gun companies to sell new guns.
     

    SAWMAN

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    They already have sir.
    GOOGLE - -> NEMO
    IIRC . . they are chambered in 300Win Mag and 7mm Rem mag. I can think of several other interesting possibilities.
    Why these KAK's are interesting is that you get the power of the huge frame NEMO in a 308 sized gun. (300Win Mag vs 300WSM) --- SAWMAN
     

    FrommerStop

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    They already have sir.
    GOOGLE - -> NEMO
    IIRC . . they are chambered in 300Win Mag and 7mm Rem mag. I can think of several other interesting possibilities.
    Why these KAK's are interesting is that you get the power of the huge frame NEMO in a 308 sized gun. (300Win Mag vs 300WSM) --- SAWMAN

    Well why fool around with what was in the orignal post. For about $6,000 or so you can have the below.

    The OMEN Watchman is the worlds first viable, reliable, and accurate 300 WM semi-auto platform. Built for ultra long-range applications, the Watchman makes precision shooting at extended ranges a breeze. At the Watchman’s core is a 24” Proof Research carbon fiber barrel, which is chambered in NEMO’s facility to ensure optimal accuracy performance. Extremely low recoil comes thanks to our own patented recoil reduction system which you won’t find anywhere else. This, combined with comfortable ergonomics gives the shooter confidence to shoot better than ever before. You must shoot it to believe it. The Watchman provides and exceptional shooting experience, allowing the shooter to perform at levels never before imagined.

    NEMO upper and lower receiver set billet 7076-T6 Hard Anodize tiger stripe
    15” 6061 M-LOK modular rail 1.83” internal diameter steel QD mounts rotation limited
    Lightweight heat dissipating barrel nut 7075-T6
    7075-T6 7 rifle length “Carrier Cradle” anti-tilt receiver extension Nickel Boron coated
    Tuned steel faced buffer system
    Chrome silicon recoil spring
    PROOF Research 24” Carbon fiber wrapped barrel 1:8 twist .300 win-mag chamber
    NEMO dual chamber compact muzzle brake 6AL-4V titanium
    4 position adjustable gas system for suppressed and un-suppressed use
    Severe duty threaded stainless gas tube extended length gas system
    PATENTED recoil reduction carrier 8620 heat treated Nickel Boron coated
    High Pressure bolt 9310 heat treated Cryo’d shot peened MPI Nickel Boron coated
    Tool steel extractor heat treated IONBOND coated
    Titanium through drilled takedown and pivot pins
    Ambidextrous safety selector
    Tool steel side charging handle Ionbond coated
    Geissele Super semi-automatic enhanced (SSA-E) two stage trigger First 2.3lbs Second 1.2lbs
    MAGPUL MIAD grip
    MAGPUL PRS adjustable rifle stock
    NEMO 14 round magazine with aluminum follower
     
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