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Mosque shooting/s in Christchurch NZ.

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  • FrommerStop

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    Film footage is being taken down. This was still active when I posted
    https://twitter.com/HVahapoglu/status/1106507476827074560

    In New Zealand possession of firearms requires a license that must bear the correct endorsements for each class of weapon. I have not seen anything on that issue yet.

    already the politicians are going to do more gun laws over that way.
    New Zealand's prime minister vows to change country's gun laws

    From CNN's Samantha Beech

    New Zealand's prime minister Jacinda Ardern announced that the country’s gun laws will change in response to a hate-filled terror attack targeting two mosques in Christchurch.
    “There were five guns used by the primary perpetrator. There were two semi-automatic weapons and two shotguns. The offender was in possession of a gun license. I’m advised this was acquired in November of 2017. A lever action firearm was also found," she said at a news conference in Wellington early Saturday local time.
    She continued:

    “While work is being done as to the chain of events that lead to both the holding of this gun license and the possession of these weapons, I can tell you one thing right now. Our gun laws will change.”
     

    Ross7

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    Here's an explanation of some of the writing the killer had scribbled all over his guns and magazines...

     

    FrommerStop

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    Analyses from people that I highly regard relative to training and killing.

    I just watched it. Tell me if I'm wrong:

    He's using an AR with a holographic sight right? It looked like he was using a chest rig and running jungle style with a few of his mags...his outfit looks like he just walked off the paintball field. Shotgun has a RDS, First AR has holo-sight, second AR has an RDS. He was in full subdued urban multicam from top to bottom including armor and carrier.

    He seemed determined and calm, knew how more or less to aim and reload. It doesn't seem like he knew how to clear rooms, he basically just reacted and aimed. At 7 minutes, it looks like someone tried to tackle him, but he was faster. The defender did however knock the shooter over. ish, I agree he didn't know how to clear rooms, was untrained with his weapons and equipment as evidences by him dropping loaded and half loaded mags all over the place, additionally he wasn't aiming as on more than one occasion he was shooting while looking in a completely different direction. His tactics appeared to come directly from movies and video games, he appeared to have some marksmanship skill/training as he was dropping moving victims as they cross the fatal funnel. Ya, 1 out of that whole room tried to take him down while the rest cowered. Had 2 or three tagged him on the way through the door they could have saved all but about 3-4 lives.


    Can anyone make it what it says on his AR? it's a bunch of names or events of Muslim violence combined with a bunch of white supremacist crap.

    Just why would he put his eotech on backwards? I don't know that he did and I couldn't even tell if it was an Eotech or something else.

    I also noticed he went back and forth to the rooms to fake out anybody that survived and was waiting for the killer to leave to be able to call for help. This is part of what led me to the gaming component, I think he was doing it out of habit as he would in a video game, same with the reloads, that and he didn't completely penetrate the main room until his last time in. He just kept shooting blindly into the huddle piles from the entry (heads up partial penetration advocates "because the IDF does") look at how may were left untouched in the corners he hadn't cleared. On his last trip through he started aiming and taking anchor shots.
    One thing I immediately thought about was funding. His weapons, vehicle, equipment, were all of decent quality and in total likely cost a pretty penny.

    After watching the helmet cam footage twice, everything this guy did (demeanor, clothing, tactics and word-festooned weapons) screams "I'm in a video game!" While all this makes it easy to ridicule him, it shows that these types are potentially very dangerous.
    Only to the unarmed and unprepared

    I've been waiting to see the video before responding. It is indeed filled with interesting material.

    Walking back to the hallway. I've never been a video gamer, so I hadn't considered that angle. I was theorizing that he was uncomfortable with reloads, so he retreated to a "safe space" to reload the rifle. The video game theory makes more sense, but I' wondering if it's kind of the same thing; if that's how you "seek cover" in a video game in order to conduct a reload.

    Tunnel vision. He got fixated several times. One guy ran up behind him, but I wasn't able to determine whether that guy was actually trying to bum rush him or was just trying to flee down the hallway. Either way, the shooter allowed that guy to close the distance with him before he got a few shots in.

    Too many guns. I counted six long guns and no handguns. NZ has very tight gun control on handguns, but not on rifles. That's how you end up with someone armed like this. I theorize that he viewed the extras as "spares" but couldn't really carry them as secondary weapons. The number of guns is absurd. This fact seems ripe for a conspiracy theory, because it is tailor-made for creating a display of an "arsenal" for the media. It's also the mark of an amateur. A gunfighter would have had fewer guns and more mags/ammo.

    Writing on guns. Regardless of what it says, this screams "crazy" to me. The odd part of this is that there was a coordinated attack. Crazy people usually don't coordinate group crimes. They act alone.

    Casualness. It is strange how he leaves his guns open and accessible in the car and just walks away from it. A conveniently situated person might have grabbed one of his own guns and shot him with it. But he seemingly had no fear of that possibility.

    Wandering. He went in and out and in and out. It was not a clear and focused attack. There was no target objective. It was just random mayhem. When he started driving, this randomness played out again, as he ignored some people and targeted others. He could have run over a couple of pedestrians, but he calmly waited for them to cross the street--then honked loudly once they were already out of the way. I hypothesize that the wandering was in part due to not dying in a hail of glory; that he expected a shootout with cops, but the cops were too slow in arriving. Eventually he got tired of waiting and drove off.

    Quality guns. It's hard to know exactly what he's got, but they do not appear to be complete clunkers.

    Attitude. He seemed oddly upbeat. Not sad; not angry. That might be explained by drugs. If we see a positive toxicology screen that would give more credence to this possibility.

    No security. NZ is a very safe country generally, and I recall security being lax everywhere, so it doesn't surprise me that they had no security. But it sure would have been useful if they'd just had a couple of stout and motivated guys near the front door. He emptied that shotgun pretty quick. There was an opening when he tossed the shotty and transitioned to the rifle.

    Glacial police response.

    It took about 6 minutes before the calls for more gun control rang out.

    There's more, but that's my first take.
     
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    Ross7

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    I hypothesize that the wandering was in part due to not dying in a hail of glory; that he expected a shootout with cops, but the cops were too slow in arriving. Eventually he got tired of waiting and drove off.

    I thought that part a bit strange, no sense of urgency or rush at all. Walking back out to his car to get another rifle, walking back in to shoot some more, later walking back out and back to the car again. It seemed he was almost waiting for the cops to show up before finally leaving.
     

    fl57caveman

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    already the politicians are going to do more gun laws over that way.
    New Zealand's prime minister vows to change country's gun laws



    another pinhead decision by the willfully blind, it is not the gun laws that need to change you twit pm, it is the immigration laws that allowed mass immigration of a culture 180 degrees from theirs, to come in..

    they are importing evil, and act shocked when a pushback comes from the citizens.
     

    Fletch

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    No way no how would I watch that video and there is nothing interesting about it. If it's not your job to watch it you are doing nothing more than viewing a snuff film of 50 innocent people be slaughtered.

    Would any of you like for the meaning of your life to be reduced to some asshole on the other side of the planet watching you take a bullet to the brain while knocking back a diet coke and some pretzels? Discussing the "tactics" an evil murderous man used to take your life.

    The thinly veiled quasi endorsement of the act that a few have espoused is troubling as well. They were all innocents. Where's the humanity? These were human beings with thoughts and dreams, spouses, kids and loved ones same as any of us.

    It's simply wrong to watch it. If one can do so without any empathy for the victims they are a sociopath capable of anything.

    Yes there is a high degree of radicalization within Islam for many reasons. But you can't wholesale condemn over 1 billion people as having no worth or humanity. That way of thinking is the devil's work.
     

    FrommerStop

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    No way no how would I watch that video and there is nothing interesting about it. If it's not your job to watch it you are doing nothing more than viewing a snuff film of 50 innocent people be slaughtered.

    Would any of you like for the meaning of your life to be reduced to some asshole on the other side of the planet watching you take a bullet to the brain while knocking back a diet coke and some pretzels? Discussing the "tactics" an evil murderous man used to take your life.

    The thinly veiled quasi endorsement of the act that a few have espoused is troubling as well. They were all innocents. Where's the humanity? These were human beings with thoughts and dreams, spouses, kids and loved ones same as any of us.

    It's simply wrong to watch it. If one can do so without any empathy for the victims they are a sociopath capable of anything.

    Yes there is a high degree of radicalization within Islam for many reasons. But you can't wholesale condemn over 1 billion people as having no worth or humanity. That way of thinking is the devil's work.

    Me I only condemn those that wish me harm and for sure not all muslims in general. I am opposed to people that kill in name of a religion, a race, or creed. I would only kill to save myself or for others.
    At the moment I do not feel up viewing the film. But as mentioned earlier those involved in security of their churches or other organizations would find it useful.
    Since what was done worked well for the maniac in question, others may copy it down to the smallest detail. May give an idea of what to expect.

    The below is certainly not a viable solution
    head in the sand.jpg
     

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    Snake-Eyes

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    If you want to reduce "the meaning of their lives" to just a video, then that's on you.
    I choose to learn from a tragedy and try to avoid it in the future. I see that as ADDing meaning to their lives. The same way we studied aircraft accidents and listened to heart-wrenching audio recordings. It wasn't easy to do, especially when you know exactly when the crew realized they were going to die. But it's an important part of human evolution: to learn from others and improve your situation.

    You say we shouldn't watch it if it isn't our job. Well, I guarantee you those whose "job it is" to watch it will Not disseminate the same lessons learned to the rest of us.

    I consider it MY job to look out for me and mine.

    With that in mind, as for the video, yeah, I watched it. I'm not a sociopath. I didn't have Coke and pretzels, either. Unfortunately, I've seen much worse...

    It's close quarters shooting of unarmed people. There is audio. It is not easy to watch.

    For those folks who won't/can't watch it, I'll share with you some lessons learned/reinforced. You may have heard one or all of them already in your lives, but if not, then hey, at least something positive came out of the tragedy.


    1) Evil exists. And it doesn't always show up with a fanfare and a warning. Sometimes, it literally calmly walks up the sidewalk and opens fire.

    2) If someone starts shooting and you can leave, then RUN. If you can't get away, then FIGHT. You have the rest of your life to win that fight. There were more than enough people there, that if they fought him, they would've saved dozens of lives.

    3) Playing dead doesn't work. This shooter went room to room, and returned multiple times. He even left the building and came back to finish off everyone. Moaning wounded, and even those not moving or making a sound, were shot again until all was quiet.

    4) If you are outside of a place where there is a shooting in progress, find Cover, and use it to shield you as you leave the area. Put a tree, some parked cars, a wall, a building, between you and the shooting area, and run away. Unless you are armed and trying to save a family member, get out of there. This shooter went outside and shot at bystanders just walking nearby or loitering in the parking lot.

    5) When driving, if someone else is driving erratically, give them space, and let them pass. When walking near a road, be vigilant and alert. This shooter drove recklessly away, and shot at some bystanders, through his windshield and side windows.

    6) "Carry a firearm, responsibly". What does that really mean? Practice with the gun, so you can hit what you aim at. Practice with the unloaded gun, so you can draw it without negligently pulling the trigger at the wrong time. Practice carrying the gun, so you can be comfortable with it on your person. Practice being alert to your surroundings and always trust your instincts.

    A responsibly armed person at that mosque could've saved dozens of lives.

    7) Trust your instincts. There is a theory that the "hair rising on the back of your neck" or barely perceptible "hunch" is actually your subconscious trying to tell your conscious that something out-of-the-normal is going on. Your brain sees/hears/smells/etc sensory overload all the time. It associates a deep library of background information for common everyday scenarios, and it stores it. So when you go outside and something doesn't feel right, it's because something doesn't match that deep library of "normal background" info. Maybe the bugs aren't buzzing, or birds aren't chirping, or the sky color is different for that time of day, or there are extra cars on the street, or traffic is heavier/lighter, or there's more people walking around, or your peripheral vision doesn't recognize that guy walking up the sidewalk holding a rifle...

    As was pointed out already, copycats will emulate this degenerate coward. I'd rather peek at the enemy's playbook than have to reinvent the wheel.
     

    FrommerStop

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    #7 scares me. My instincts tell me to be very concerned, if some of the folks posting on this forum, start following their instincts.
    I would follow my instincts in becoming aware and cautious. I would not actually draw a weapons based solely on it, but I would position myself in a way that serves my best interests.
     

    FrommerStop

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    Now possession or sharing of the massacre video means prison time in Zealand
    NZ Threatens 10 Years In Prison For 'Possessing' Mosque Shooting ...
    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/.../nz-threatens-10-years-prison-possessing-mosque-...

    12 hours ago - New Zealand authorities have reminded citizens that they face up to ... New Zealand mosque shooting video - and up to 14 years in prison for sharing it. ... reported that "New Zealand ISPs have banned dissenter.com until it is ...
     

    polebarn

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    I wouldn't be surprised if the FBI was not trying to clamp down on videos as "dissemination of terrorism",etc. Not to mention how many mental defectives there are out there who cannot tell the difference between watching this and a video game.
     

    TK5o

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    Why are all the media outlets pulling this down, when they allow videos from other hate crimes and active shooters to stay up
     

    MAXman

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    another pinhead decision by the willfully blind, it is not the gun laws that need to change you twit pm, it is the immigration laws that allowed mass immigration of a culture 180 degrees from theirs, to come in..

    they are importing evil, and act shocked when a pushback comes from the citizens.

    This is like saying someone in a MAGA hat deserves to get hit with a pipe for demonstrating at Berkeley.
     

    waxedfish

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    wow got shutdown via my phone posting this info.

    Sandy Hook Hoax Posted 18 hours ago
    From Tony Mead:

    At 6:00 in he gets out of the car with a rifle in hand. Then he opens the trunk and pulls out another rifle as the one he had in his hand just disappears !
    6:27 well dressed couple has no reaction to a man carrying a rifle?
    6:39 as he approaches the front of the Mosque, the music has magically followed him from the car! 6:45. The shooter has been shooting straight ahead, but the victim is laying on the ground to his left. He has his face covered. There is no blood!
    6:47 the "victim" is crawling away? Why ?
    7:01 the "victims" are already piled up in the corner
    7:04 the guy comes running around the corner TOWARDS the shooter! Who would do that?
    7:25 the shooter has fired 20 rounds towards a pile of dead bodies. Not a single bullet hits the wall? In fact, not a single bullet hits the wall in the entire shooting!
    7:52 gives us a clear view of the "carnage" and for some reason there is absolutely NO BLOOD on anyone!!
    8:55 as he exits the building the music is playing. Why ? Where is it coming from?
    8:58 - 9:06 he shoots at absolutely nothing as the Ejected cartridges disappear into thin air! CGI 10:02 again shooting at nothing. Isn’t he worried that the cops could show up by now?
    10:33 returns to the scene for some unknown reason. Anyone would be heading for the hills by now as cops are surely on the way there by now. His absence has allowed for some better staging of the scene as fake blood has been added! There is blood coming only from the victim on the right. The victim on the left has no blood and his whites shoes are even spotless!
    10:51 still no blood from the dozen or so victims laying on the floor
    10:55 offers a better view of the "dead victims" who have no blood on them and somehow manage to all lay face down! Also note that there is absolutely zero damage to the walls!!
    11:06 the shooter decides to double kill some of the dead people just for good measure! We see their bodies jerk with the impact of the "bullets" and yet their clothes remain intact and there is no flesh exposed. At least they tried to jazz it up a little with just a tiny bit of fake blood!
    BTW, 11:02-11:06 he shoots directly at the walls and there is not any sign of impact!
    11:20 the music resumes! I guess we needed a soundtrack for this shooting!
    11:25 one guy in white pants covered in fake blood as everyone else remains unscathed (and face-down)
    12:06 is when he shoots the woman. We see her "hair" being struck, but it’s actually a hoodie. It’s just airsoft bullets hitting the hoodie. That’s why there is no blood splatter!
    12:50 he shoots at his windshield twice! The windshield doesn’t break
    13:22 he places the barrel of the gun against the side window and it break. The glass falls inward. In summation, I would recommend that everyone watch this with a critical mind. There is nothing scary about it once you realize that it is just stage acting combined with some very poor special effects and an airsoft rifle. Nobody got hurt in Christchurch thank God!
     
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