APOD Firearms

Replacing factory internals on a EDC gun?

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Gulf Coast States

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • mtbbrewer74

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Joined
    Jul 13, 2015
    Messages
    1,585
    Points
    63
    Location
    Milton
    I am wondering how people feel on this subject. How do you feel about replacing internals on a gun that you are going to use to protect your life? Stuff like springs, and sear. I am considering replacing a trigger on a shield 2.0 with an Apex one, and leave everything else factory.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
     

    SAWMAN

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    9   0   0
    Joined
    Oct 21, 2012
    Messages
    13,937
    Points
    113
    Location
    Cantonment,Fla.
    Quality parts . . installed correctly . . properly lubed . . X amount of shots fired for reliability . . sure,why not. --- SAWMAN
     

    RackinRay

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    13   0   0
    Joined
    Sep 28, 2012
    Messages
    3,538
    Points
    113
    Location
    Pensacola, west side.
    I was once told by an instructor, who was also an Assistant State Atty, to NEVER modify any gun carried for self defense. He said it makes it easier for lawyers to raise the issue as you making the gun more deadly, increasing culpability in a jury's eyes. I know it seems hard to credit, but then I saw what some juries would do!

    I will change the sights to night sights or add a laser, but I will never change or modify the trigger/firing mechanism.
     

    donr101395

    Master
    Super Moderator
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Joined
    Jan 26, 2013
    Messages
    2,984
    Points
    83
    Location
    Crestview
    I was once told by an instructor, who was also an Assistant State Atty, to NEVER modify any gun carried for self defense. He said it makes it easier for lawyers to raise the issue as you making the gun more deadly, increasing culpability in a jury's eyes. I know it seems hard to credit, but then I saw what some juries would do!

    I will change the sights to night sights or add a laser, but I will never change or modify the trigger/firing mechanism.


    Did he also tell you to never change from the OEM stock tire on your car in case you have to use your car as a weapon? It's the equivalent and it's bullshit. A legal killing is a legal killing regardless of the mechanism. Ayoob and his sycophants have spread more BS to scare people than to help them IMO. Every point he makes can be summed up with the shoot was questionable either due to the circumstances or something the killer said or did to make their actions suspect only after the shoot was determined suspect was anything else brought into question.
     

    RackinRay

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    13   0   0
    Joined
    Sep 28, 2012
    Messages
    3,538
    Points
    113
    Location
    Pensacola, west side.
    Did he also tell you to never change from the OEM stock tire on your car in case you have to use your car as a weapon? It's the equivalent and it's bullshit. A legal killing is a legal killing regardless of the mechanism. Ayoob and his sycophants have spread more BS to scare people than to help them IMO. Every point he makes can be summed up with the shoot was questionable either due to the circumstances or something the killer said or did to make their actions suspect only after the shoot was determined suspect was anything else brought into question.

    No, no mention of cars. The advise was not from a gun guru; but from an experienced member of the court; and I believe he was more referring to the civil wrongful death suits that are raised when some misguided youth is removed from the pool when he tried to rob or assault the wrong person.
     

    wildrider666

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Joined
    Sep 26, 2012
    Messages
    8,753
    Points
    113
    Location
    Panama City Beach, Fl
    We, as defensive gun folks; often view things in worst case scenario. I'm a no mods. guy. FWIW:

    A Mfr stock EDC is what it is. A modified EDC is what the Prosecuter and his "expert witnesses" convince the Jury it is. Def. Made the gun: more accurate, easier to pull the trigger, faster trigger pull, faster followup shots; all premeditated enhance the guns use in killing little thuggie. All done in preperation for the oppertuinity when Def could kill!

    There's Criminal Court and Civil Court where the bar of guilt/responsibility is much lower. Why give opponent lawyers another multii-tool to use against you?

    What if Zman used a "modified" gun when he killed TM? I think the Prosecutor would have rode that to the Bank: preperation in support of intent. IMHO
     

    donr101395

    Master
    Super Moderator
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Joined
    Jan 26, 2013
    Messages
    2,984
    Points
    83
    Location
    Crestview
    No, no mention of cars. The advise was not from a gun guru; but from an experienced member of the court; and I believe he was more referring to the civil wrongful death suits that are raised when some misguided youth is removed from the pool when he tried to rob or assault the wrong person.
    My point being I've done.the same research for.an article at a previous employer. I interviewed 11 prosecuting attorneys who collectively had 250 years of law and not one had ever checked a trigger pull weight. The tire comment came from two of them. They said they weren't going check the trigger pull on a legal killing anymore than they were going.check.tire pressure if a truck was used instead of a gun. I brought Ayoob up because he.is.much more than just a gun guru.

    Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk
     

    FrommerStop

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Joined
    Apr 7, 2016
    Messages
    6,897
    Points
    113
    Location
    NWFL
    Lets look at this from another angle. Will the modification make you more efficient at killing your foe. Why lower your chances of survival over a hypothetical court case that likely will never be.
    My point being I've done.the same research for.an article at a previous employer.
    I can guess who it was for and it is interesting that he asked you to do that.
     
    Last edited:

    donr101395

    Master
    Super Moderator
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Joined
    Jan 26, 2013
    Messages
    2,984
    Points
    83
    Location
    Crestview
    Quite honestly, I don't care what people do to their guns. I'm comfortable with what I do to mine. Carry on folks

    Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk
     

    mtbbrewer74

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Joined
    Jul 13, 2015
    Messages
    1,585
    Points
    63
    Location
    Milton
    I do appreciate all the responses. I didn't mean to create chaos. I actually only plan to put an Apex trigger on my Shield 45. Just replacing the trigger doesn't reduce the trigger pull weight, but it does reduce the take up and reset.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
     

    chibooey

    Shooter
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Joined
    Feb 19, 2017
    Messages
    47
    Points
    8
    Location
    Pace, FL
    I believe the Apex trigger also offers a Glock like trigger safety which the S&W stock trigger does not have. So replacing the stock trigger with an Apex must be for safety purposes.
     

    mtbbrewer74

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Joined
    Jul 13, 2015
    Messages
    1,585
    Points
    63
    Location
    Milton
    I believe the Apex trigger also offers a Glock like trigger safety which the S&W stock trigger does not have. So replacing the stock trigger with an Apex must be for safety purposes.
    The S&W has a trigger safety.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
     

    Murfpcola

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Joined
    Apr 15, 2016
    Messages
    1,831
    Points
    113
    Location
    Pensacola
    I consider it a safety upgrade. Easier to get shots on target which is much safer for innocent bystanders.
     

    Big Shrek

    Marksman
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Joined
    Mar 4, 2016
    Messages
    986
    Points
    63
    Location
    Pensacola, FL
    To be honest, if you don't say anything about your gun, other than "It's a gun", chances are nobody else will notice anything either. They've all got bigger fish to fry. Nobody is going to waste time on it unless you TELL THEM. More folks get into deeper doodoo when they tell on themselves than anything else.

    So...after a defensive shoot...Shaddap.
    Tell them that you will be happy to help with the inquiry with a lawyer present.
    Do not volunteer any info other than the basics....name, rank, serial number,
    and "I was in fear of my life/others and shot to stop the attacker." Then
    ask to go to the hospital because you don't feel very well. Talk to your lawyer.
    Make sure he's with you for any police inquiries. COVER YER BUTT.

    If anyone asks you why a particular gun..."It was what the gun shop guy/etc suggested!"
     

    Joeinfl

    Expert
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Joined
    Nov 1, 2017
    Messages
    130
    Points
    0
    Location
    Pensacola, Fl
    At that point that I had to do a self defense shooting I don't think legalities would be my biggest concern. Having said that, I guess I'm in the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" group. I carry the Shield 45 and after several hundred rounds fired I feel confident it would be there if needed. Each to their own, if you feel like you need to modify your firearm you should probably do so, you should know it better than anyone.
     

    wildrider666

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Joined
    Sep 26, 2012
    Messages
    8,753
    Points
    113
    Location
    Panama City Beach, Fl
    I’d say, “If you have to ask whether a modification or alteration to your pistol will hurt you in court, it probably will.” Thats the last line from the Linked article from Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network. These experts say whether its a deliberate defensive shot a ND, accident or Mfr defect the gun is going to be inspected/tested where there may be criminal or civil liability.

    https://armedcitizensnetwork.org/en/gun-modifications

    Since I'm not paying anybody else's legal bill, it doesn't matter to me what mods anyone does unless I get winged. Lol
     

    FrommerStop

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Joined
    Apr 7, 2016
    Messages
    6,897
    Points
    113
    Location
    NWFL
    I’d say, “If you have to ask whether a modification or alteration to your pistol will hurt you in court, it probably will.” Thats the last line from the Linked article from Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network. These experts say whether its a deliberate defensive shot a ND, accident or Mfr defect the gun is going to be inspected/tested where there may be criminal or civil liability.

    https://armedcitizensnetwork.org/en/gun-modifications

    Since I'm not paying anybody else's legal bill, it doesn't matter to me what mods anyone does unless I get winged. Lol
    The input i am getting from police types that regularly kill criminals is a little different. With them they claim it is the facts of the case and also what is presented to the arresting officers. If there are other witnesses or survivors it is important that the police hear from you on the scene and if possible you be the one that calls 911 first and make it clear that you are the victim.

    My take is do everything possible to avoid any scenario that could turn violent. If there is violence do what you need to do. Do not be a Zimmerman and go looking for trouble.

    Part of a discussion on the aftermath after a shooting by and LEO.
    On CLEAT (Combined Law Enforcement Associations of Texas) and lawyers in general.

    On one of my OIS (Officer-Involved Shooting) I was still on scene awaiting the team of Rangers when I got a call from my CLEAT Rep asking if they needed to get a lawyer enroute. I hadn't called them, but the blue crew has big ears and they heard none the less which prompted the call to me. I told them No, and that I would call them if needed.

    Either way, whether I called them, or they called me, they still weren't going to beat the Rangers to the scene for the walk through. This is true of any lawyer unless you were having lunch with them when the hammer dropped, and is something to keep in mind.

    The Rangers didn't require me to do the walk through right then, and would have given me time had I needed it. But I was ready, and did the walk through before I ever left the scene, and filed my report after I cleared the scene. The statement with the Rangers was the next day, and was cleared to go back to duty in under 72 hours (took 3 months to get to grand jury and be No-Billed) from the time of the OIS.

    UNDERSTAND, and be respectful of, but don't fear the process
    (By CoastalCop)
    .
     
    Top Bottom