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Polymer 80 for ccw?

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  • TK5o

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    I see these polymer 80 build threads and have wanted to try one. They look good with aftermarket slides and personal touches. I also hear the ergonomics are better than a factory glock although I have never handled a polymer 80 frame. BUT... my main concern/question is what are the thoughts and feeling on using a polymer 80 gun as a dedicated ccw and home defense weapon?
     

    Murfpcola

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    As with any gun used for self defense, make sure you run a decent number of rounds through it before relying on it. There are plenty of expensive guns that have been jam-o-matics. Some people worry about how it would look in court if used in a defensive shooting.

    One other side note is the polymer 80s don't neccasarily fit holsters for the same size glocks. I have read about some folks having luck using a Glock 21 holster with the Glock17/22 size Polymer80
     

    TK5o

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    Oh wow. I never heard about the holster issues. Thats good to know. The court thing has certainly crossed my mind, what are the thoughts on that issue? Definitly I will test any carry gun
     

    War-Buff

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    ...The court thing has certainly crossed my mind, what are the thoughts on that issue?...

    I'm sure there are valid points to be made either way, but to me a pistol built on an 80% frame is just as perfectly legal and proper as any other weapon...they are legal to buy, complete and own for personal use, and no serial number is required...at least in FL...for the time being... I've never carried one so cannot speak to the holster fit issue.

    Of course, like any weapon with which we will trust our lives, we must ensure they are 100% functional, just as my Polymer 80 v2s have been. I have the first version too, and that one will occasionally stovepipe an ejected case, so that pistol is just for occasional range use. just my 2¢ YMMV
     

    SAWMAN

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    Soooooooo . . . trying to understand this 80% frame stuff - - -> if you get in a situation (good,bad,etc.) and the LEO goes to run your weapons serno,and there aint one,what happens then ??
    He don't know shit about the 80% frame finish thing. He kinda knows where the serno is supposed to be and it aint there. What does he do then ??
    For me . . my 80% gun would reside in my home as a bedside or armchair gun after haven proved itself 100% reliable and 15yd extreme max,accurate.
    But that's just me. --- SAWMAN
     

    stage20

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    No serial number you could be headed straight to jail or have to waste a bunch of your time in court. I'd get with a leo before carrying or at least educate yourself enough to make your own decision
     

    FLT

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    I’d put a number on a 80% lower if I were to finish one. I think you would avoid a lot of potential problems by adding a serial number.
     

    War-Buff

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    If you wish to add a serial number you may, but it is not required.
     

    Jester896

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    There is a spot for a number. My friend and I talked about serializing them when we built them. It would be required for the sale of a completed one...wouldn't it?

    Mine has been 100% reliable to this point. I think the first 200 rounds went through it just as fast as I could send them checking for everything. I believe RC is up to right at 600 rounds....nothing to write home about.

    Holsters...there are some fitment issues from what I have seen. I had one made for my pistol locally and had it made for a light. I do need to take the light off and try it without it. I am glad this reminds me. I kinda believe it is getting retention on the light and I don't want that.
     

    stage20

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    I had been told you can't sell or trade that's it's yours and yours only. Using your initials and dob you could easily serialize your firearm. TBC1970-1 TBC1970-2 and so forth. I may do some ar15 80 lowers like this
     

    FrommerStop

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    I know that if the gun stays in your home or even just in the state the feds have no say over it as long as it stays out of commerce, especially anything interstate. If the serial number of a firearm is obliterated that is against federal law. If you gun never had a serial number just what charge can the state or local police file against you under the laws of the state of FL.
    I may make one, but it would not be for everyday usage and rather for the time that all guns are made to be illegal. One does not save all that much from making a frame and the other parts are what ever the market charges and besides I do not like the polymer 80 grip angle. I prefer the 22 degree angle of the OEM glock. If you do want one I suggest you buy them soon. As the election campaigns start to ramp up there will be runs on such things. Ammo, guns, and such are relatively cheap and mostly in stock at the moment.

    I strongly believe if not 2 years from now, for sure 6 yrs from now we will get changes of power that will not be good for gun owners.
     

    SAWMAN

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    Ok . . . Huh . . . BUT - - -> Long story short. I owned a revo about 15 years ago that left the factory without a serno. This was a modern revo and definately should have had one. (I will post the whole story in another thread if anyone wants to hear it.)
    The ATF in P'cola told me that it had to have a serno for me to posses it/own it,etc,etc. After . . blah,blah,blah,I had a serno of THEIR CHOOSING put on it and they physically (eyeballed,touched) blessed it and I took it home.
    I see no difference between this and a 80% AR,Glock,or any other firearm. I predict that at some point in the future the Feds will come out with a ruleing that all these firearms MUST have a serno. IOW . . as you complete a 80% lower it MUST be taken it to ATF for a serno.
    I also agree with the above about the political climate changeing for the worse. If you want a 80% whatever,buy them now. If you want a stripped AR lower buy them now. Same with hicap mags and ammo . . . ALL AMMO.
    Good luck to us all. --- SAWMAN
     

    SAWMAN

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    And IMO . . . a serno made up by you,and physically marked on the gun would mean nothing. This,because nobody else would have it on file. If a cop ran that number sitting in his cruiser,what would come back to him to help him determine HIS next move and how to deal with you.
    My prediction is . . . in the least you would have your weapon confiscated. In the most . . . you just might go to jail.
    Rots-oh-ruck wit dat. ---- SAWMAN
     

    FLT

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    A old saying comes to mind, you may not do the time,but you are going to take the ride. Most Leo's aren't gun guys and don't know gun laws very well. After you are transported to the jail they'll call someone that's knows the law and you will be released. Small towns in out of the way places aren't where you want to be in possession of any thing out of the ordinary . There are folks out there that have no idea that a civilian can legally own machine guns and silencers / supressor's and short barrel shot guns. Given today's climate any encounter with law enforcement can end badly. In my opinion they are best avoided if at all possible .
     

    SAWMAN

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    I do not have any NFA,Class 3,surpressor,SBR,SBS,type of stuff.
    But when my 10.5" AR/pistol leaves the house with me,I have with it,in the dedicated case,three copies of the ATF letters,"blessing" it.
    Same with my XM177E2. I have as much info as I could gather for it as far as bbl length (11.5") and lower stamped "AUTO" and "PROPERTY OF U.S. GOVERNMENT".
    Hopefully the LEO will take the time to be presented this paperwork and listen to my explanation. --- SAWMAN
     

    FrommerStop

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    Ok . . . Huh . . . BUT - - -> Long story short. I owned a revo about 15 years ago that left the factory without a serno. This was a modern revo and definately should have had one. (I will post the whole story in another thread if anyone wants to hear it.)
    The ATF in P'cola told me that it had to have a serno for me to posses it/own it,etc,etc. After . . blah,blah,blah,I had a serno of THEIR CHOOSING put on it and they physically (eyeballed,touched) blessed it and I took it home.
    I see no difference between this and a 80% AR,Glock,or any other firearm. I predict that at some point in the future the Feds will come out with a ruleing that all these firearms MUST have a serno. IOW . . as you complete a 80% lower it MUST be taken it to ATF for a serno.
    I also agree with the above about the political climate changeing for the worse. If you want a 80% whatever,buy them now. If you want a stripped AR lower buy them now. Same with hicap mags and ammo . . . ALL AMMO.
    Good luck to us all. --- SAWMAN
    Legally is very different if you did not personally make and especially if it was ever in interstate travel or commerce. The 80% guns if they are made in your home and stay in your possession in that home are not currently covered by federal law. Guns IIRC and many other things regulated by the Feds are done under the right to regulate commerce.

    This is from an antigun center, but is basically correct. https://lawcenter.giffords.org/gun-laws/federal-law/other-laws/federal-powers/

    Federal Powers to Regulate Guns
    The powers of Congress are limited to those that are enumerated in the United States Constitution.1 The principal powers available to Congress to regulate firearms are the “commerce power,” arising from the Commerce Clause, and the “taxing power,” arising from the Taxing and Spending Clause.2

    A regulation based on the exercise of the “taxing power” must be consistent with that power.3 The first federal regulation of firearms, the National Firearms Act (“NFA”), was enacted as part of the Internal Revenue Code in 1934.4 The NFA levied taxes on the manufacture, sale and transfer of certain classes of firearms and enacted regulatory provisions related to the collection of those taxes

    If I had a gun that left a factory and was without a serial number I would instantly destroy it since its possession is illegal. About the only way that could happen 'legally' would be a gun intended for some arm of the government like the CIA or some part of the NSA or DoD. Some military weapons prior to being given to foreign sources or used in certain actions at times have had the serial numbers or other markings removed.
     

    wildrider666

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    I don't know of a single "legal" advantage to CC a firearm made from a 80% frame. Being a 100% legal doesn't mean it won't be be the source of legal problems until it gets sorted out.

    I only CC 100% factory stock guns, same for defense while on my property. I have no desire for additional scrutiny criminally or civilly. Using an untraceable firearm only fuels adverse speculation that may need to be defended against.

    They are lawfully built as a hedge against the gun grabbing 2A End Game. No need to unduly expose them.

    Mfgs put thousands of dollars and manhours into research and development but still have inadvertent discharge warnings prompting "factory upgrades" or Recalls. I'm not against 80% or 100% builds but people must understand they "OWN" all aspects of responsibility that it entails.
     

    wildrider666

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    Prior to the GCA of 68, Mfgs were not required to put serial numbers (SN) on firearms. Most Mfgs had already been using internal SNs as an aid to inventory control/tracking. I have owned several Pre GCA firearms that did not have a Mfg SN, its not illegal to own them. BATFE has a proceedure if you want to SN them. Even with Mfgs that were applying SN before the GCA, the occasional firearm woud turn up without a SN because it was pulled as parts for testing (before SN assigned), assembled tested, then placed back on the Line and shipped: this would also be a Pre GCA firearm and legal witout a SN. CA (maybe other gun grabber States) have a law requiring all firearms be serialized including 80% builds which require you request and receive a SN from the State before you build it.

    Destroy a no SN firearm: never. FFLs still log them in acquisition and disposition records/4473s and use NSN Pre GCA in the SN data Block. Can a Licensed Dealer-Gunsmith "take in" a completed firearm made from an unserialized 80% reciever/frame for repair or coatings? From what Iread in ATF Rule 2015-1 YES, as long as the work does not constitute "manufacturing". I don't know what would be listed in the SN data block, NSN completed 80% build?
     

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