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Lube for .22 autoloader

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  • joraca

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    I have a gallery .22 autoloading rifle chambered in .22 short.

    With wet lube, it gums up and starts malfunctioning in about 100 rounds. Just not much recoil to work with. CB caps are the worst.

    So I was thinking about using some sort of dry lube.

    I don't have anything suitable (other than maybe graphite) so I wanted some suggestions on what might work before I went out and bought something.
     

    RackinRay

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    I would suggest trying it with no lube in the chamber and barrel. Use your favorite lube, but dry the chamber and barrel well before shooting.

    I have never ran a wet .22 LR firearm as lots of .22LR ammo is already lubricated with a sticky lube. Clean after firing as required, and again dry swab chamber and barrel well before firing again.
     

    FrommerStop

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    I would suggest trying it with no lube in the chamber and barrel. Use your favorite lube, but dry the chamber and barrel well before shooting.

    I have never ran a wet .22 LR firearm as lots of .22LR ammo is already lubricated with a sticky lube. Clean after firing as required, and again dry swab chamber and barrel well before firing again.

    I have run .22 semiautos wet. The .22 semiauto builds up a lot of gunk. And even a reliable one like a ruger at about 500 or so of bulk packed ammo gets crudded up. Wet lubes increase the recoil speed of the bolt a bit which I know you do at weekly 900 matches for you rmodel 41.
    For many .22's semis that are marginal excess liquid or a dry lube may not help a lot. If it was a gallery gun, is there a possibility that it is badly worn? If the gun had 80,000 rounds put through it might have to be rebuilt by someone that knows something about .22 autos. Malfunctioning .22 rifles can be notoriously difficult repair. The major wear areas would be the receiver and bolt clearances, extractor, the chamber, (look for a firing pin ding) and sear-disconnector. If it uses a magazine tube, the lifter is another suspect area. The tube magazine spring may also be weak. I would start with the tubular magazine spring since that is the easiest to check out.
     

    joraca

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    Yes, I run my Model 41 dripping wet. Unless it has started to malfunction, I ask myself the question of whether it will improve my quality of life to clean it. The answer is usually no.

    This rifle is about 70 years old, but it looks near new. Beautiful bluing still. It was given to me by friend that has passed. It had been given to him new by his father and he shot it for a very few years then put it away. I'd be surprised if the round count was over 10,000. It shoots reliably when it is clean but malfunctions when it starts getting gummed up. It just gets gummed up faster than I think it should but I think that might be due to over-oiling--or maybe oiling in the wrong places.

    Most of the failures occur in the lifter area. I'll look for wear next time I tear it down, and clean the tubular magazine.
     

    FrommerStop

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    Yes, I run my Model 41 dripping wet. Unless it has started to malfunction, I ask myself the question of whether it will improve my quality of life to clean it. The answer is usually no.

    This rifle is about 70 years old, but it looks near new. Beautiful bluing still. It was given to me by friend that has passed. It had been given to him new by his father and he shot it for a very few years then put it away. I'd be surprised if the round count was over 10,000. It shoots reliably when it is clean but malfunctions when it starts getting gummed up. It just gets gummed up faster than I think it should but I think that might be due to over-oiling--or maybe oiling in the wrong places.

    Most of the failures occur in the lifter area. I'll look for wear next time I tear it down, and clean the tubular magazine.
    The lifter if sluggish could be the problem. The cyclic rate on most .22 LR rifles is usually in excess of 1000 RPM and so they are fast and the lifter has to be able to keep with it. I recall there at one time was a special galley load.
    The Remington Rockets used a iron compostion bullet. Remington made a 22 short “Gallery Splatter-Less” with a 15 grain “special composition bullet” (iron). These came in 250 round loose pack boxes. I not sure these are the same as the Rockets which were marketed in the 1950’s as “very high velocity” but these 15 gr gallery rounds were reported to have a velocity of 1710 fps.
    Seems like CB caps will not be enough and you likely want high velocity loads if they are available.
     

    RackinRay

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    Good catch Frommer, I missed the CB cap comment. If it is functioning with those at all it may hint at another problem.

    To my best recollection, only two semi-automatic rifles were ever made that would handle .22LR, .22 Long, and .22 shorts; one was a Remington, a model 550 (I rescued one off a parts sell one day and got it working), and I believe the other was a Springfield or Savage. They used a floating chamber to handle the full range of .22 loads.

    Standard velocity LR is what that old a gun would likely be designed for. I would try it with standard target LR, and a clean dry receiver and chamber, especially if you are using a cleaning lubricant like CLP or Frog Lube that leaves a molecular coating on treated parts. Try it with CCI standard RNL and see how it does.

    If the rifle is cycling at all with CB caps, I would replace the recoil spring on the bolt first. It has to be weak to function and load CB caps in my mind.
     

    FrommerStop

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    Good catch Frommer, I missed the CB cap comment. If it is functioning with those at all it may hint at another problem.

    To my best recollection, only two semi-automatic rifles were ever made that would handle .22LR, .22 Long, and .22 shorts; one was a Remington, a model 550 (I rescued one off a parts sell one day and got it working), and I believe the other was a Springfield or Savage. They used a floating chamber to handle the full range of .22 loads.

    Standard velocity LR is what that old a gun would likely be designed for. I would try it with standard target LR, and a clean dry receiver and chamber, especially if you are using a cleaning lubricant like CLP or Frog Lube that leaves a molecular coating on treated parts. Try it with CCI standard RNL and see how it does.

    If the rifle is cycling at all with CB caps, I would replace the recoil spring on the bolt first. It has to be weak to function and load CB caps in my mind.
    There were other rifles that were claimed to function with all three lengths, but in this case the rifle was a gallery model intended for short length cartridges only. Most gallery .22 were pump/slide action guns, but there were some semi-autos also. The gallery guns were used at fairly close ranges and .22 shorts were more than adequate. Also cheaper in those days. Many farm boys purchased shorts for hunting since they were cheaper to buy.
    In this case I assume the CB caps were on the short case. I have seen them also on the long case.
     

    FrommerStop

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    Reduced power .22 rim fire cartridges

    08-19-11-01-CB-caps-vs-air-rifle-test-CB-caps.jpg
    From left to right: CCI CB Short, CCI CB Long, RWS CB cap, RWS BB cap, Aguila Super Colibri and Aguila Colibri.
     

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    joraca

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    Thanks guys. It is Remington 550-2G. .22 short only. Numrich has the bolt spring and the magazine spring in stock, but I'll try cleaning it first, looking for wear problems, lubricating it sparingly, and firing it with a dry chamber.
     

    RackinRay

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    Let us know how it works. I missed that it was a .22 short in the first post. I have never fired one in .22 short, all the "gallery" guns made now are in .22LR and that that poisoned my thoughts. That is the best excuse I have for reading the post poorly.

    I have owned two .22 pump rifles in the past. Now I have learned quite a bit about the gallery guns now, I have another craving! LOL
     

    Big Shrek

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    Good catch Frommer, I missed the CB cap comment. If it is functioning with those at all it may hint at another problem.

    To my best recollection, only two semi-automatic rifles were ever made that would handle .22LR, .22 Long, and .22 shorts; one was a Remington, a model 550 (I rescued one off a parts sell one day and got it working), and I believe the other was a Springfield or Savage. They used a floating chamber to handle the full range of .22 loads.

    Standard velocity LR is what that old a gun would likely be designed for. I would try it with standard target LR, and a clean dry receiver and chamber, especially if you are using a cleaning lubricant like CLP or Frog Lube that leaves a molecular coating on treated parts. Try it with CCI standard RNL and see how it does.

    If the rifle is cycling at all with CB caps, I would replace the recoil spring on the bolt first. It has to be weak to function and load CB caps in my mind.

    Marlin made a BUNCH of rifles that would handle all three...
    the semi-auto ones ran best for me when Dry...
    But that doesn't mean No Lube, but simply oiling, then letting the parts air-dry & wiping
    with a cloth or blowing dry with an air compressor. Then reassembling for use ;)

    Rimfires can be snarky...gotta learn a lot of tricks to wring the most reliability out of 'em!
    I've bought several rifles that folks got frustrated with for $50, spent a few minutes
    tweaking them, and then got major enjoyment from shooting & later selling at a profit!
    (Just don't do a 5-second repair in front of 'em!)
     
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