Are you carrying/training adequately for the job? (CCW)

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  • Ex0dus

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    I’ve been meaning to write about a conversation at a gun range that I had with another gentleman, and it got me thinking.

    Are we carrying and training adequately for certain situations?

    I sat with this man at a picnic table, on range. He was taking a smoke break. He began to tell me about his brother-in-law in Texas, who runs a small jewelry broking business there. From what I’m told the man (We will call him John for reference) had his wife in the car and had to run into his closed business to collect a few documents. Johns normal carry pistol was a Kel Tec PF9 (7+1), but that day he decided to throw a Glock 19 into his waistband, for some reason. I’d almost call it fate.

    John was met by another gentlemen that had been scoping the business for a while, and when he returned to the car, he was met with a grapple from his attacker. Now; it could’ve been the fact that the thief thought there was a million dollars in his briefcase, or maybe he just wanted to hurt John... but for whatever reason, a fight ensued. The attacker drew a gun, and John went for cover behind an adjacent car, presumably to protect his wife. The attacker fired three or four shots, striking John in the right hand, hip, and a graze to his leg. John took cover while drawing his weapon with his wounded hand. The attacker advanced on John, and John returned fire. John firing 11 shots out of his 16 in an exchange of fire with his attacker. Somewhere between standing and firing and trying to avoid getting hit more, John dropped to his ass. The 10th or 11th round that John fired struck his attacker in the face/head (luckily).

    The man on range told me that John was still recovering after multiple surgeries. His wife, in an adjacent car had been on the phone with police while the fight was playing out.

    John has said that he knows if he was carrying just his Kel Tec (he had apparently said he didn’t carry a spare magazine) that he probably wouldn’t be alive today. And he’s projably correct.

    This leads me to wonder: Are we carrying and training adequately for what we are going to need to accomplish? Should pocket pistols be a thing we purchase just as a back up, or a quick in-the-pocket concealment for when we’re just going up the street to the gas station?

    I see a lot of close friends of mine leaving their guns at home, because the area they are going to, they frequent. This is assuming that because you are familiar with an area, nothing could ever happen there.

    I want to advocate for always putting your pistol on your body, no matter how short the trip. I’d rather take the extra time to strap up with a tool that has the potential to save my life, than be cowering behind something, wishing I had it.

    I also encourage people to take training inspirations from this, as I have. Off-handed shooting, racking your slide with only one hand, shooting from the back, shooting from the side, shooting from cover, malfunction clearing to get your weapon into battery and back into the fight, etc...

    The man made a point to say: “Look at all these great shooters. Really nice groups and all. But what happens when the target shoots back?”...

    Not telling anyone what to do, or undermining their training...

    Food for thought.
     

    FrommerStop

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    I did not read the whole post, but one should learn to shoot ambidextrously. Wounds to the hands and arms are common.

    Relative to the bolded title question, at the moment I am not training adequately and really I should be doing a lot more. The best equipment is a hand gun equipped with decent, yet safe trigger, giving decent grouping, and with a miniature red dot on it. But also learn to fire your handgun well without being able to clearly see or focus on the sights since many self defense scenarios occur under low light conditions. I know a retired Escambia deputy that as he got older could not see his sights clearly and was able to still quality with his pistol as required.

    Train the way you carry with what you carry. Practice your draws from how you conceal out on the street with your clothing over the gun concealed. Also learn to use your feet and fists. Stay in decent physical shape if your are able to.
    I generally carry a gun anywhere that I legally can and as I type this I have a gun on me.
     

    ThunderBro5850

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    I’ve been meaning to write about a conversation at a gun range that I had with another gentleman, and it got me thinking.

    Are we carrying and training adequately for certain situations?

    I sat with this man at a picnic table, on range. He was taking a smoke break. He began to tell me about his brother-in-law in Texas, who runs a small jewelry broking business there. From what I’m told the man (We will call him John for reference) had his wife in the car and had to run into his closed business to collect a few documents. Johns normal carry pistol was a Kel Tec PF9 (7+1), but that day he decided to throw a Glock 19 into his waistband, for some reason. I’d almost call it fate.

    John was met by another gentlemen that had been scoping the business for a while, and when he returned to the car, he was met with a grapple from his attacker. Now; it could’ve been the fact that the thief thought there was a million dollars in his briefcase, or maybe he just wanted to hurt John... but for whatever reason, a fight ensued. The attacker drew a gun, and John went for cover behind an adjacent car, presumably to protect his wife. The attacker fired three or four shots, striking John in the right hand, hip, and a graze to his leg. John took cover while drawing his weapon with his wounded hand. The attacker advanced on John, and John returned fire. John firing 11 shots out of his 16 in an exchange of fire with his attacker. Somewhere between standing and firing and trying to avoid getting hit more, John dropped to his ass. The 10th or 11th round that John fired struck his attacker in the face/head (luckily).

    The man on range told me that John was still recovering after multiple surgeries. His wife, in an adjacent car had been on the phone with police while the fight was playing out.

    John has said that he knows if he was carrying just his Kel Tec (he had apparently said he didn’t carry a spare magazine) that he probably wouldn’t be alive today. And he’s projably correct.

    This leads me to wonder: Are we carrying and training adequately for what we are going to need to accomplish? Should pocket pistols be a thing we purchase just as a back up, or a quick in-the-pocket concealment for when we’re just going up the street to the gas station?

    I see a lot of close friends of mine leaving their guns at home, because the area they are going to, they frequent. This is assuming that because you are familiar with an area, nothing could ever happen there.

    I want to advocate for always putting your pistol on your body, no matter how short the trip. I’d rather take the extra time to strap up with a tool that has the potential to save my life, than be cowering behind something, wishing I had it.

    I also encourage people to take training inspirations from this, as I have. Off-handed shooting, racking your slide with only one hand, shooting from the back, shooting from the side, shooting from cover, malfunction clearing to get your weapon into battery and back into the fight, etc...

    The man made a point to say: “Look at all these great shooters. Really nice groups and all. But what happens when the target shoots back?”...

    Not telling anyone what to do, or undermining their training...

    Food for thought.

    This is an excellent example of using a duty weapon to cover your ASP. When I was in Iraq in 03/04 and 05/06, I carried an M249 (Saw) as a crew serve weapon, an M4 (AR15 5.56) as a duty weapon while as a passenger or driver in military vehicles and an M9 (Beretta 9mm) while walking around camp. All 3 served their purpose for whatever level of danger one might encounter while in a combat theater. I'd say that "John" inadvertently and rightfully chose to carry a duty weapon while performing some duties that may require an extra level of safety. The Keltec is excellent for walking around in the mall, but the Glock would be more appropriate for gas stations/convenience stores, jewelry stores, ATM's (not inside a bank) and places like Walmart where criminals tend to look for potential victims.

    For myself as a new Floridian from NYC (I'm on a strict budget...thanks wife), I would carry a Taurus G2C which holds 12+1, but am looking to carry something with 18+1 soon. Now, I do go running and something like a G2C is just not practical, so a Taurus Curve 380 (again...budget) would be more fitting. Pun intended. The Curve holds 6+1 and it sort of contours to my body especially around the flabdominals. When I'm running, I'm always by myself so my job is to protect ME or anyone in my immediate vicinity that may be in eminent danger (which is next to never since I live in a lightly populated area) that is not a bad guy, but any other time, I am going to wear my sub-compact 9mm which should hold 10 or more because at that time I am protecting my family and/or my property.

    Different tools for different jobs. Unfortunately, the job may change throughout the process so maybe an extended magazine for your rec weapon wouldn't be such a bad idea. I guess I have to dry fire while jogging in my garage for training.
     

    Ric-san

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    While I was in the Marines back in the early 90’s our Commandant was Gen Al Gray, one of the most beloved Generals from my time in, bar none, His famous saying was “Train like you fight, fight like you train”. Maybe he’s not the originator of that saying, but he meant it. The Marines were having too many accidents in training and he was pissed. This story is a good example of “Be Prepared”, the motto of the Boy Scouts....
     

    Ex0dus

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    I guess I have to dry fire while jogging in my garage for training.

    Man, dry fire training is never a bad idea. Dry fire exercises have made me a much better shooter on range. Whenever I am alone in the house so the wife doesn’t laugh at me... I’m always running dry fire drills.
     

    FrommerStop

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThunderBro5850 View Post
    I guess I have to dry fire while jogging in my garage for training.
    Man, dry fire training is never a bad idea. Dry fire exercises have made me a much better shooter on range. Whenever I am alone in the house so the wife doesn’t laugh at me... I’m always running dry fire drills.
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    wildrider666

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    Banks and Drug RX Stores are often mistaken as CC prohibited, unless posted (per Statute): check your State Laws.

    IMHO: Too many people have adapted the fallout from the law of averages on gunfight rounds discharged and distance, AS THEIR standard to prepare for. I say "too many people" because demand for small, low capacity, single stack handguns and mfgs responding with several dozen are being bought by more then ladies with tiny hands! BUGs you say! I don't think so. I rarely carry a BUG anymore unless on a road trip. I've asked a few frends with CCW what kind of BUG they carried, only one knew what a BUG was and he wasn't the one (only one) that carried a spare mag! Personal choices, well informed or not.

    If you were a BG, going to do BG stuff and had a choice of what handgun/capacity/spare mag(s) to pack what would it be?
    How do your daily tools compare? Choices!

    Noteworthy, in the OP Post: the 10 or 11th defensive shot ended the fight. Doesn't seem like there would have been time for a reload after 5/6/7 rounds or even possible with his injuries. Maybe the defender was more proficient with the KelTec and could have made a early CNS hit or same proficiency and be dead. I think most would agree that in this case, firearm capacity made the outcome what it was.
     

    SAWMAN

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    5 shot revo (38 OR 357) with a speed loader or a KelTec PMR-30 (22mag) with one mag of 30rds.
    Take your pick. We all most likely fall somewhere in between.
    Then there is an energy on target (terminal ballistics) thing. Three hits COM with this equals 10 hits COM with that.
    Then there is the weapons size thing. Me . . ? . . I want a Glock 42 sized gun that will hold and fire a Glock 20 mag of ammo. Can't have that so will end up somewhere in between.
    When I was young and actually knew it all,I carried a 5 shot revo or two,then a 8 shot 45ACP or two,then a 7 shot 38Super,then all sorts of Glocks.
    Nowadays,since I do not know everything (but almost) ,I carry a Glock 33 or a Glock 32 with a higher cap mag (just one) as a reload. IOW,a 32 mag for my 33 and a 31 mag for my 32. (another beauty of Glock) Then another 50 rds or so in my truck.
    In another 10 years or so,when I finally get old and don't know nuthin,I will carry a Glock 42 and no reload.
    AND . . . I hate pinky extensions or the +1 or +2 longer mags. If you want a small gun,buy a small gun. If you want a big gun,buy a big gun. How silly !! --- SAWMAN
     

    Ex0dus

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    If you were a BG, going to do BG stuff and had a choice of what handgun/capacity/spare mag(s) to pack what would it be?
    How do your daily tools compare?

    I still carry a modified version of the same handgun that I first started carrying as soon as the law permitted: A Glock 19, some custom work done to it, and two magazines (always a spare) with +3 mag extensions by Taran Tactical. I’ve never had an issue concealing double stack of guns with bigger frames. Perhaps that will change as I age.
     

    Big Shrek

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    If you were a BG, going to do BG stuff and had a choice of what handgun/capacity/spare mag(s) to pack what would it be?
    How do your daily tools compare? Choices!

    If I was going to do Bad Guy stuff, say, TETOWAKI has occurred...
    Full Auto 12 gauge shotgun pistol.
    Prefer the belt-fed version, tho ;)
    14695597_1143862412329301_2981607439454370286_n.jpg

    Because when you absolutely need to kill every bleeper in a room,
    that will do the job better than anything else, and quicker.

    Second best is this little gem...the Calico Tactical Entry Pistol.
    100 rounds per mag of 9mm or .40-Short & Wimpy will do nicely.
    wm_3608886.jpg

    3rd best, is the Colt Defender Shotgun!
    Colt Defender Shotgun.jpg

    Because, if one is a true Bad Guy, one pays ZERO attention to Laws.
    so Full Auto and Super-High capacity are not only par for the course,
    they should be Expected!

    Death Wish.jpg
     

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