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Weapon mounted light for ccw??

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  • JWlineman

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    How are the switches on the 7 compared to the hl?
    I'd need to do some google-fu but it seems the 7 is more of a push button where as the 1 is a paddle switch. For me the 7 would be specific to a subcompact that wouldn't fit a tlr1. I'm of the opinion to bring as much lumens to the fight as possible.

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    SAWMAN

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    I'm ignorant.
    Please explain all the advantages of a weapons mounted light. I already know the one about if you get your off hand shot off and stuff like that. Always willing to learn from a certified instructor. ---- SAWMAN
     

    JWlineman

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    I'm ignorant.
    Please explain all the advantages of a weapons mounted light. I already know the one about if you get your off hand shot off and stuff like that. Always willing to learn from a certified instructor. ---- SAWMAN
    One handed weapon manipulation is a definite advantage, not having to carry an extra light is another. No I don't unholster my firearm to look for the spare key I dropped but if I'm having to hold my child and a gun in a HD situation or in a parking lot, a WML is preferred.
    I try to keep the discussion mission specific, mine is strictly a defensive one.
    I think the tactics and equipment have altered over time(i.e. red dots on pistols) and I take advantage of that.
    I'm sure there's more...

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    SAWMAN

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    JW - - -> agreed. (The "mission and tactics" part
    How you train is how you fight. And by the way,the people that choose to train and fight with a weapon mounted light . . . I don't think are "ignorant". I simply disagree with their methodology. ---- SAWMAN
     

    JWlineman

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    JW - - -> agreed. (The "mission and tactics" part
    How you train is how you fight. And by the way,the people that choose to train and fight with a weapon mounted light . . . I don't think are "ignorant". I simply disagree with their methodology. ---- SAWMAN
    That's the cool thing about opinions on some subjects, we can both be right. For my methods and missions a wml works best. I do agree with the use of an offhand light and I carry one depending on what I'm doing.

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    donr101395

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    How are the switches on the 7 compared to the hl?
    They are similar to the Inforce lights rather than like a HL switch.
    Here is my setup I was wearing today and tonight for a wedding rehearsal and dinner in Pensacola.
    I do wish the switches were extended about a 1/4" it would make one hand manipulation a bit easier.


    Sawman the largest advantage is being able to get a two hand grip on your weapon for a better, more secure and more stable platform. I shot for years and taught Harry's, FBI hold, Surefire/Roger's technique, neck index etc. and they all work, but they all require a compromised grip on the weapon. Also if your fight suddenly becomes a hands on situation you have both hands filled and depending on lighting conditions you may need a light to see the assailant once you create space. Once you drop your handheld in the fight you're screwed. You still can't shoot something you can't see.
    Just my two centavos.
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    JWlineman

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    We doing selfies now?! Haha
    *soft loop from the holster is the only noticable thing*
    8d72a677930ff9f1cbb9b5d243e984a2.jpg


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    Last edited:

    wildrider666

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    If someone only wants to train only with a handheld based on their equipment limitations or simply because that's what they want to do I'm cool with it, but to not acknowledge the advantage a weapon mounted light potentially gives is simply showing ignorance.
    ...... .

    Same applies for not acknowledging the disadvantages of a WML or a seperate light. Its up to each person to evaluate both sides. There are hand manipulation differences between a WML and a seperate unit but thats moot verses no light: start to finish in a CC gunfight. I clearly listed what I precieve as disadvantages. No one has stated advantages or even when or how they will use the light(s). Even if the BG is prone to strobe induced seizures, he has to be subjected to it long enough to induce the response. Meanwhile the strobe user will be collecting rounds (same goues for high Lumen"blinding" light). You need only answer what you would do facing a Strobe in a gunfight. However, it may slow a blade carrying BG if you want to go with LTL.

    CC = defensive response. What advantage for a WML cannot also be considered a disadvantage tactically?

    Just stating "Training" is a word crutch if the Skill Set is not viable for the intended application. It may be cop flashlight training 101 (offensive use) and useful if your clearing your house/property when there's no alternative but do those same tactics work for CC defense which is where this gun/light/holster issue started? For CC: I'm strictly in the no light group.
    I'd like to be enlightened, but lights are good, darkness bad: train more: is not very persuasive.

    Respectfully,
    WR
     

    donr101395

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    Same applies for not acknowledging the disadvantages of a WML or a seperate light. Its up to each person to evaluate both sides. There are hand manipulation differences between a WML and a seperate unit but thats moot verses no light: start to finish in a CC gunfight. I clearly listed what I precieve as disadvantages. No one has stated advantages or even when or how they will use the light(s). Even if the BG is prone to strobe induced seizures, he has to be subjected to it long enough to induce the response. Meanwhile the strobe user will be collecting rounds (same goues for high Lumen"blinding" light). You need only answer what you would do facing a Strobe in a gunfight. However, it may slow a blade carrying BG if you want to go with LTL.

    CC = defensive response. What advantage for a WML cannot also be considered a disadvantage tactically?

    Just stating "Training" is a word crutch if the Skill Set is not viable for the intended application. It may be cop flashlight training 101 (offensive use) and useful if your clearing your house/property when there's no alternative but do those same tactics work for CC defense which is where this gun/light/holster issue started? For CC: I'm strictly in the no light group.
    I'd like to be enlightened, but lights are good, darkness bad: train more: is not very persuasive.

    Respectfully,
    WR
    I'm pretty sure that I acknowledged that no WML isn't the end of the world. I also outlined above the advantages vs. disadvantages.
    Personally, I don't care what anyone else does as far as WML or hand held or both (I do both) because I don't have to fight their fight or answer their questions in an interview room, but when someone says just use your hand held to ID the bodies; I can't in good conscience let it slide because someone with little to no training may take that and run with it then find themselves in a world of hurt for shooting the neighbor's kid because they didn't know any better that they need to PID anyone they are going to use deadly force against. Probably more so than an LEO contact because a civilian isn't charged or empowered to hunt bad guys as a regular part of their day.

    Feel free to disagree it wouldn't be the first time someone disagreed with me.

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    Glock31c

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    They are similar to the Inforce lights rather than like a HL switch.
    Here is my setup I was wearing today and tonight for a wedding rehearsal and dinner in Pensacola.
    I do wish the switches were extended about a 1/4" it would make one hand manipulation a bit easier.


    Sawman the largest advantage is being able to get a two hand grip on your weapon for a better, more secure and more stable platform. I shot for years and taught Harry's, FBI hold, Surefire/Roger's technique, neck index etc. and they all work, but they all require a compromised grip on the weapon. Also if your fight suddenly becomes a hands on situation you have both hands filled and depending on lighting conditions you may need a light to see the assailant once you create space. Once you drop your handheld in the fight you're screwed. You still can't shoot something you can't see.
    Just my two centavos.
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    Did you do any back flips at the wedding.
     

    Glock31c

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    Ok to bad I have to work. Cause I come have a dance off and I like to break dance. Lol
     

    wildrider666

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    The pros and cons over WML verses seperate light are listed but those don't provide advantages of having either form of light as opposed to no personel light for CC which was asked by the OP.

    How can it be used in a CC role, to your advantage: that is not also a disadvantage to you tactically? I reviewed all responses though #35 and the only one that fits is to use it as a blunt force weapon (so being a light is moot, it could be your extra mag or OC can). Every other use can draw fire. If your searching for a BG with a light (even momentary), BG is aiming or shooting! I'm still open to any clear advantage that anyone has to offer.

    Something you see in the available ambient light triggered your CC response, has the light changed in the time it took to draw? I think if you can ID a threat you can PID the BG doing it.

    Maybe use the light to check for bystanders beyond the BG threat, if you want to take te time to mentally digest it. Clocks running and the bullet can go further then you can see with the light.

    Several training programs on light use out there, when does a "CC" use it during a lethal threat or gunfight to his/her sole advantage without compromising their own safety?

    IMHO why its tactically bad to use them for CC.
     

    MAXman

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    I’ll expand a bit on what I said earlier:

    There’s three routes I use to get my dogs steps in. One includes a dark corner in the neighborhood, and anther a dark stretch of sidewalk. Due to streetlights, cars, and when Milton high runs their stadium lights the concept of eyes adjusting to darkness is tossed out the window.
    It’s not all the time, maybe only once a month(when it happens it seems to happens in clusters) one of my neighbors will manage to let their dogs loose. Sometimes their friendly, a couple times they haven’t been. The last time it was a bull dog about the same size as mine. Now, at night I carry a disposable led and I’ll use it when pupper spots a critter in a shadow or something. But with a 60 lb pit tearing out behind a car, and a 60lb shepard mix at the end of a leash(all in a neighborhood corner without lights), I don’t think there was a way to keep positive control of my dog, a handheld light and my weapon(which was drawn, because I’m not getting in-between 120lbs of dog fight with my bare hands). Interestingly, that stupid laser max light’s 100 lumens made the other dog pause when it hit its eyes(that last bit isn’t imo an arguement for a light, I just consider that luck)

    A weapon light is an option, just like owning different holsters, a subcompact as well as your 19, having tennis shoes and boots and sandals in the closet, etc. owning one doesn’t mean you have to use it, or leave your pen light at home. It just means you theoretically can engage something 8 yards away, that’s in a shadow, one handed, perhaps better if you have too. Mine was 50$ on amazon, clearance with free shipping, I’ve wasted far more on holster “options” that sucked.
     

    donr101395

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    The pros and cons over WML verses seperate light are listed but those don't provide advantages of having either form of light as opposed to no personel light for CC which was asked by the OP.

    How can it be used in a CC role, to your advantage: that is not also a disadvantage to you tactically? I reviewed all responses though #35 and the only one that fits is to use it as a blunt force weapon (so being a light is moot, it could be your extra mag or OC can). Every other use can draw fire. If your searching for a BG with a light (even momentary), BG is aiming or shooting! I'm still open to any clear advantage that anyone has to offer.

    Something you see in the available ambient light triggered your CC response, has the light changed in the time it took to draw? I think if you can ID a threat you can PID the BG doing it.

    Maybe use the light to check for bystanders beyond the BG threat, if you want to take te time to mentally digest it. Clocks running and the bullet can go further then you can see with the light.

    Several training programs on light use out there, when does a "CC" use it during a lethal threat or gunfight to his/her sole advantage without compromising their own safety?

    IMHO why its tactically bad to use them for CC.
    To each their own. If you don't want to use one don't. If you think bringing light to a minimal light situation is bad then rock on. For me having a good tool I may need is much more attractive than not having a tool when I need it.
    Lighting conditions change and I'm pretty sure I haven't advocated using only one or the other.


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    10wt308

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    When I had training we used hand held lights and tactics. (Revolvers had no rail LOL)
    Now to present time, I need solid reasons to support your point of view.
    In my house I believe I have the right to search with wml. I want to hear about tactics how to use both wml and hhl and maybe legal issues about both.
     

    donr101395

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    When I had training we used hand held lights and tactics. (Revolvers had no rail LOL)
    Now to present time, I need solid reasons to support your point of view.
    In my house I believe I have the right to search with wml. I want to hear about tactics how to use both wml and hhl and maybe legal issues about both.
    That's interesting, I started this during the revolver days as well working part time at a Podunk PD in Michigan.
    I'm not asking you to support my point of view so we have that going for us. I've laid out why I do what I do and the advantages and disadvantages. I do what I do and have progressed since the 80s.
    I'm not teaching tactics in an online discussion forum, it's not the place.

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