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  • Snake-Eyes

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    The Muslim ban is in place now. It would have been in place sooner if the Administration had some experience in writing out executive orders. As for the rest of your post - folks are voting along party line, regardless of anything else. That is not governing, it is dysfunctional.

    As for the "sky is falling", that is funny coming from folks who preach situational awareness in their own lives, yet will turn a blind eye to any political event that does not directly and immediately affect them. No the sky is not falling, right now, go back to the punch bowl and continue to drink the kool-aide.

    It's Not a "Muslim Ban". It was a ban for specific countries. But I'm not surprised at your label; there's that narrative spin of "fact" again.
    The "party line voting" is a direct rebuttal to your assertion that the government is somehow letting the POTUS do whatever he wants. Uhm, no.
    And yes, it is "sky is falling" stuff, because one thing has nothing to do with the other. You started this thread as if we are watching the legal precedent to overturning the 2nd Amendment, and that's completely not true.

    He could write a perfectly worded EO tomorrow to Un-FUBAR the current policy of mis-applying the intent of the 14th.
    Then, on Friday, he could write his best shot at FUBARing the 2nd. Neither would have anything to do with each other (except for the fact that it was started as an EO).

    The 14th is currently not being applied correctly; the current administration wants to fix that.
    The 2nd is currently not being applied correctly either (in my opinion), but there's no standing to make it worse via EO.
    At least recent SCOTUS decisions have started to swing the pendulum back to where it needs to be. Check/balance the F-d up Legislative oversteps from 1934 and 1968... no one said it's a fast process.

    Regardless of all of that, EO's are not beyond scrutiny of the Courts.

    Chillax. Have some candy.
    Happy Halloween.
     

    MAXman

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    Not all babies born in the USA to non-citizens are coming out of illegal aliens. Do an internet search of "birth tourism".

    Wonder if that’s what my son is?



    Also, Muslim Ban is hardly Jeb’s label. But he’s not saying an executive order to overturn/amend/change the 14th has anything to do with the 2nd:
    He’s saying is we sit idly by and let presidents act like kings because they’re Our Guy, we won’t have a foot to stand on when Thier Guy does the same in 2-6 years.
    And sure, maybe he’s lighting a fire under congress to get them to do something, anything about immigration. Or maybe he’s just running his mouth to fire up the base for next week. Sorry, I don’t trust him any more than any other elected official, so IMO he should worry about executing the constitution not changing it.
     

    fl57caveman

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    There are at least 30 countries on this planet with birthright citizenship. We are not the only country that allows this. Trump lies again.

    out of 194 countries

    only 30, have it, not at least


    it does not work, the host country will be overwhelmed...as Europe as an example
    If you read the links I posted, and do more research, you will find it out...it is NOT a constitutional right, it has been pushed for democrat votes only....
     

    Jeb21

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    This is an opinion piece from a conservative who worked for Reagan, Bush Senior, and W Bush


    Amending the 14th Amendment Is a Bad Idea
    Peter Wehner
    Peter Wehner, a senior fellow at the Ethics and Public Policy Center, has worked in the administrations of Ronald Reagan, George H.W. Bush and George W. Bush, where he served as deputy assistant to the president.

    UPDATED MAY 11, 2011, 1:08 PM

    Some Republicans (like Minority Leader John Boehner and Senator Lindsey Graham) argue that allowing children of illegal immigrants to become U.S. citizens attracts larger numbers of illegal immigrants. They’re wrong.

    Conservatives generally oppose tinkering with the Constitution, especially for empty causes.
    For one thing, the evidence that “anchor babies” is a magnet for illegal immigration doesn’t exist (the main motivators are searching for work and better economic conditions). For another, amending the 14th Amendment -- which would require a vote of two-thirds of both the House and the Senate, followed by a ratification of three-fourths of the state legislatures -- is a distraction from necessary things that need to be done, including securing the southern border, toughening enforcement policies and expediting the legal process to cut the average deportation time.

    It would also be a dramatic and unnecessary break with precedent. As a general matter, conservatives oppose tinkering with the Constitution, especially for empty causes. And revoking birthright citizenship would, as my former White House colleague Michael Gerson has written, “turn hundreds of thousands of infants into ‘criminals’ — arriving, not across a border, but crying in a hospital.”

    On top of all that, it would be politically hazardous. Hispanics are among the fastest growing demographic groups in America. The party of Lincoln and Reagan can appeal to them with a principled stand on illegal immigration, in combination with policies that increase economic growth, entrepreneurship and social cohesion. To go from securing the border to amending the Constitution is to journey from serious policy to stupid symbolism.


    The above article was for those who responded to the thread with comments about the 14th amendment, and who insist on focusing on that amendment, despite the fact that that particular amendment is not what this thread was about. You are welcome, Happy Halloween.
     
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    Snake-Eyes

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    This is an opinion piece from a conservative who worked for Reagan, Bush Senior, and W Bush

    ...words words words about politics and voter base, no substance about the 14th Amendment...

    The above article was for those who responded to the thread with comments about the 14th amendment, and who insist on focusing on that amendment, despite the fact that that particular amendment is not what this thread was about. You are welcome, Happy Halloween.


    You started this thread using the PROPOSED "changes" concerning the 14th Amendment as a panic-button for POSSIBLE "precedent" to change any other other Amendment. Then the Chicken Little comment of "this should scare the shit out of gun owners".

    We point out the details of the 14th Amendment to point out that your fundamental ASSumption concerning the PROPOSED changes is WRONG. Therefore, there ISN'T a correlation between what is going on with the 14th versus what Might go on with any other Amendment (including the 2nd). The 14th is NOT being rewritten or changed. It should be simply followed as intended, and not the BS way it's interpreted now.

    These EO's are not chiseled in stone by God, carried by Moses, and instantaneous absolute law. They will be examined and most-likely contested, and they'll see their day in court. So again, there is no need to panic.

    As for the 14th, just pick a search engine and look-up "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof". You'll see exactly what they meant, those who WROTE the 14th Amendment. Spoiler alert: your parents need to have legit allegiance to the US (not illegal trespassers).
     

    FrommerStop

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    First no president can alter the legal wording of an amendment by executive order. The constitution does not permit it. Thee is a specific process for nullifying amendments via the adoption of new ones.
    The word born is used just once from what I read of the 14th amendment.
    President can do is ask for changes in the interpretation of what people thinks it means. I do not know the case law involved here. If the attorney general claims at the behest of the president a differing interpretation the courts may become involved. But just changing to wording no.
    Looking at the 14th below there might be a way of denying the born children of illegals from getting automatic citizenship if someone could say that were not under the jurisdiction of the USA.
    Amendment XIV
    Section 1.

    All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
     

    FrommerStop

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    how amendments are appealed, basic constitutional history 101. The 18th amendment was repealed by the 21 st.
    On the second amendment it has all been about interpretations that finally go to the supreme court or other high federal courts.
    Volstead Act
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Jump to navigation
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    National Prohibition Act Great Seal of the United States
    Other short titles War Prohibition Act
    Long title An Act to prohibit intoxicating beverages, and to regulate the manufacture, production, use, and sale of high-proof spirits for other than beverage purposes, and to ensure an ample supply of alcohol and promote its use in scientific research and in the development of fuel, dye, and other lawful industries
    Acronyms (colloquial) NPA
    Nicknames Valentine act
    Enacted by the 66th United States Congress
    Effective October 28, 1919 and January 16, 1920[1]
    Citations
    Public law 66-66
    Statutes at Large 41 Stat. 305–323, ch. 85
    Legislative history

    Introduced in the House as H.R. 6810 by Andrew Volstead (R–MN) on June 27, 1919[2]
    Committee consideration by House Judiciary Committee
    Passed the House on July 22, 1919 (295-105, 3 Present[3])
    Passed the Senate with amendment on September 5, 1919 (Voice vote[4])
    Reported by the joint conference committee on October 6, 1919; agreed to by the Senate on October 8, 1919 (Voice vote[5]) and by the House on October 10, 1919 (230-69, 1 Present[6])
    Vetoed by President Woodrow Wilson on October 27, 1919
    Overridden by the House on October 27, 1919 (210-73, 3 Present[7])
    Overridden by the Senate and became law on October 28, 1919 (69-20[8])

    United States Supreme Court cases
    Jacob Ruppert v. Caffey, 251 U.S. 264 (1920)

    The National Prohibition Act, known informally as the Volstead Act, was enacted to carry out the intent of the 18th Amendment (ratified January 1919), which established prohibition in the United States. The Anti-Saloon League's Wayne Wheeler conceived and drafted the bill, which was named for Andrew Volstead, Chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, who managed the legislation.
    The repeal:
    Congress passed the Blaine Act, a proposed constitutional amendment to repeal the Eighteenth Amendment to end prohibition, in February. On December 5, 1933, Utah became the 36th state to ratify the Twenty-first Amendment, which repealed the Eighteenth Amendment, voiding the Volstead Act, and restored control of alcohol to the states. The creation of the Federal Alcohol Administration in 1935 defined a modest role for the federal government with respect to alcohol and its taxation.[citation neede
     

    wildrider666

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    If OP is using inferred Presidential Action against illegal alien birth in the U.S. and 14th A issues to invoke fear of Presidential Action on the 2A (or any part of the Constitution): than the Birth/14th A issue/changes to Rights/Law/interpretation must be evaluated. Therefore, that part of OPs Post can and should be challenged. If found without merit, subsequently there would be no similar originating changes to any other part of the Constitution and the rest of OPs Post woud be moot.

    The President Trump didn't pull this issue/problem out of thin air, he only proposes a solution to it. U.S. Citizenship by birth has been a contentious issue for over a 100 years, SCOTUS rendered a split decision in 1898. That decision include the parents Chinese foreign national status and that they had established legal domicile/residency in the U.S. The term "illegal alien" did not exist back then but there were Chinese Exclusion Acts in force at the time.

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/169/649
     

    LowRiderRed

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    out of 194 countries

    only 30, have it, not at least


    it does not work, the host country will be overwhelmed...as Europe as an example
    If you read the links I posted, and do more research, you will find it out...it is NOT a constitutional right, it has been pushed for democrat votes only....

    Trump says we're the only country that does this. That's a lie.
     

    LowRiderRed

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    What "other side"? I live and vote here too, a citizen in good standing. Trump is a habitual liar. What he said in respect to 14th amendment is a lie. So why are you throwing empty brass and schoolyard taunts? Out of facts.....again?
     

    Snake-Eyes

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    I researched to see exactly what the POTUS said... not what was slanted and skewed and sound-bite. Watched some speeches for myself. He talks about the "policy" of giving citizenship to kids born from illegals. He doesn't "slam the 14th Amendment" like many headlines read. My response above was a reaction to another forest-for-the-trees attack.

    The POTUS misspeaks. The POTUS has no "filter", and he uses Twitter way too much. We all get that.
    However, he is probably MIS-quoted (intentionally, usually, I suspect) quite a lot, too.

    Those exaggerated mis-quotes and rabbit-hole conclusions are what probably caised this thread's opening post.

    No worries, LRR. Glad you're exercising your rights.
     

    IronBeard

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    Review and consider the founding documents/legislation that formed the 14th Amendment, It was not, and is not, intended to confer citizenship on just anyone who happened to be born inside the US. It was mostly intended to make freed slave citizens. Another fact; the 14th did not make Native Americans citizens by birth. That did not happen until, IIRC, 1924. So, if the 14th was about birthright citizenship, why weren't Native Americans automatically made citizens since they were born here?

    What's worse, the majority of those high in government don't even know this, or choose to ignore it to their advantage. Stop allowing these people to BS you. Get over the fear of questioning, and take some personal responsibility to verify what is being offered. Know the facts vs. accepting what is offered. Fact: Everyone in a position of authority is not automatically made trustworthy; they need to earn that.

    If Trump is smart, any executive action will be stapled to the legislation that resulted in the 14th amendment, and he will direct that the 14th be enforced in that light. I believe that could even be used to retroactively revoke citizenship, but I also don't believe many have the stomach for that.
     

    fl57caveman

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    What "other side"? I live and vote here too, a citizen in good standing. Trump is a habitual liar. What he said in respect to 14th amendment is a lie. So why are you throwing empty brass and schoolyard taunts? Out of facts.....again?


    so where was your outrage when obamba lied? which was almost everytime he spoke

    do you remember: if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor? these were major, planned lies...trump shoots more from the hip, mistakes are more likely...Obama lied as a plan of action
     

    LowRiderRed

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    so where was your outrage when obamba lied? which was almost everytime he spoke

    do you remember: if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor? these were major, planned lies...trump shoots more from the hip, mistakes are more likely...Obama lied as a plan of action

    My outrage is right here right now. You and others like you attacked Obama enough, and now that he is no longer in office there is no need to pursue that, yet for some strange reason you just can't stop.

    As for the "you can keep your doctor", that is absolutely true. All you have to do is pay for it. Simple enough isn't it?

    Trump started out lying before he was elected and it's a continuing story. The fact that anyone would defend those lies only says that the defender is OK with what he's saying and is fine with supporting a liar.

    Trump isn't shooting from the hip. He is lying to your face and getting you to defend and support him. You may do as you wish. Trump is a liar, pure and simple.
     

    meek

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    Laws exist to protect us, e.g the 2nd Amendment, the 14th was created with good intentions but people today are using it as a loop hole. Every Migrants now have an Ancur baby and they can't be deported anymore. Something has to be done about this.

    Plus i think Trump brought this up to derail people from the F bombing.
     

    Telum Pisces

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    The first clause and words of the 14th amendment were simply to reverse the actions of Dred Scott v. Sandford. It gave citizenship to children born to slaves that were brought to this country by the act of slavery.

    It has been perverted into the notion of "jus soli" that prevails today! It was not the intention of the original clause of the 14th amendment and never should have been! Canada and the US are basically the only modern day developed countries that allow this. No other big developed country allows this to happen. They realize that it's wrong and is a problem!

    We need to get back to the original intent of the 14th amendment and quit allowing people simply born on our soil to be citizens!
     
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