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  • Jeb21

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    Yesterday, Trump proposed that he could nullify the 14th Amendment by executive order. Today, Senator Lindsay Graham is trying to accomplish the same thing through legislation. This should scare the shit out of all all Americans and gun owners in particular.

    The 14th Amendment provides, in part that all children born in this country automatically become American citizens. Now there is a number of shortsighted folks who are screaming "go Trump" - but you are not thinking this through. The 14th Amendment is a constitutional right - as is the Second Amendment. If a President can modify or eliminate the 14th Amendment by executive order then it stands to reason that a president - any president- can modify or eliminate the 2nd Amendment through executive order. Ditto for the legislative action.

    Are you with me yet? Trump by trying to eliminate a constitutional right via an executive order is setting a dangerous precedent that will bite all gun owners in the ass. Normally, I would say that there is no way the courts will allow this to happen but right now the courts are being filled with incompetent jurist whose only qualifications is their willingness to kiss Trump's ass. If these same ass-kissing judges approve Trump's executive order or uphold Graham's legislative action then we are far down the road of "well and truly screwed".

    We all need to contact our congressmen and senators and protest this effort to override a constitution right via either an executive order or legislative action. Please don't let your blind loyalty to Trump lead to the loss of our favorite right. Stand up to him and to his cronies and demand that they respect the constitution and all of its amendments.
     

    fl57caveman

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    8654

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    oh please you really think some president would do that to 2nd amendment, because someone in future would do someone wrong that we should be afraid to do the right thing now if that is how you feel just turn your spine in you don't need it.
     
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    Snake-Eyes

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    Clickbait, Jeb.

    Your view of judges seems to sway depending on the topic, but the fact remains: the 14th Amendment doesn't guarantee citizenship for babies born on US soil if the parents are illegal. Period. They are foreigners, guilty of criminal trespass.

    And if the Executive Branch were to issue an E.O. going against the Constitution, it would be challenged, and rightfully so. (has already happened before; many times). The Judicial Branch, then steps in.
    And if the Legislative Branch were to pass a law going against the Constitution, it would be challenged, and rightfully so. (Also has happened already many times before). The Judicial Branch would step in, too.

    It's called checks and balances, man.

    And the Final Approval always rests with We The People.
    If, by some unholy circumstance, all three Branches fail us, then we commence to pruning the Tree of Liberty...
     

    wildrider666

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    Snake-Eyes is correct. Illegal + illegal does not equal Legal just because the spawn was rendered in the U.S.

    Existing Law prohibit illegal aliens and non-immigrant aliens from firearms with few exemptions. Aliens with Green Cards can acquire firearms. So there is a clear difference of the status of the "alien" as to whether 2A Rights are applicable.

    There's no conflict with the exsting 14A only clarification as to who it applies to.

    Our Constitutional Rights do not apply to everyone on the planet, they are often allowed (limited) to encompass those persons under U.S. jurisdiction as protection under the Law. Affording "Rights" is not equal to citizenship. SCOTUS will decide this one.
     

    Jeb21

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    This thread is not really about the 14th Amendment. Thought I made that clear already. This thread is about the dangerous precedent of a president eliminating a constitutional right, any constitutional right, by executive order. For those who are claiming that Trump is simply clarifying the language of the 14th amendment. Get you heads out of the sand. Another president can clarify the language of the Second Amendment as well. I know that many of you will say but the Supreme Court has already ruled on the Second Amendment. Well the Supreme Court has also already ruled several times on Roe v. Wade and yet we fully expect that the next time the court take up abortion, Roe v. Wade will be overturned.

    Checks and balances is how our government should work, but it is not working that way under Trump. Congress has refused to act in any way contrary to Trump and so that perfect system envisioned by our founders is not working right now.
     

    Jeb21

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    Trump plans executive order to end birthright citizenship for some U.S.-born babies
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    Last Updated Oct 31, 2018 11:10 AM EDT

    President Trump, seeking to limit immigration to the U.S., is set to challenge a 150-year-old constitutional standard that anyone born in America is an American citizen. Mr. Trump told "Axios on HBO" that he plans to sign an executive order to "remove the right to citizenship for babies of non-citizens and unauthorized immigrants born on U.S.-soil."

    "How ridiculous, we're the only country in the world where a person comes in, has a baby, and the baby is essentially a citizen of the United States for 85 years with all of those benefits," the president said. "It's ridiculous. It's ridiculous. And it has to end."

    Mr. Trump told Axios he has talked with White House counsel about the executive order, and it is "in process... It'll happen."




    Again, this is not about the 14th amendment, it is about removing a constitutional right via an executive order.
     

    LowRiderRed

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    Trump plans executive order to end birthright citizenship for some U.S.-born babies
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    Last Updated Oct 31, 2018 11:10 AM EDT

    President Trump, seeking to limit immigration to the U.S., is set to challenge a 150-year-old constitutional standard that anyone born in America is an American citizen. Mr. Trump told "Axios on HBO" that he plans to sign an executive order to "remove the right to citizenship for babies of non-citizens and unauthorized immigrants born on U.S.-soil."

    "How ridiculous, we're the only country in the world where a person comes in, has a baby, and the baby is essentially a citizen of the United States for 85 years with all of those benefits," the president said. "It's ridiculous. It's ridiculous. And it has to end."

    Mr. Trump told Axios he has talked with White House counsel about the executive order, and it is "in process... It'll happen."




    Again, this is not about the 14th amendment, it is about removing a constitutional right via an executive order.

    There are at least 30 countries on this planet with birthright citizenship. We are not the only country that allows this. Trump lies again.
     

    Jeb21

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    oh please you really think some president would do that to 2nd amendment, because someone in future would do someone wrong that we should be afraid to do the right thing now if that is how you feel just turn your spine in you don't need it.

    Right after you turn in your common sense, cause you are clearly not using yours.

    The Second Amendment is not unassailable, especially not these days with mass shootings happening on a nearly monthly basis. It is not unassailable under this president who has already signaled that he supports limiting certain types of rate of fire enhancing devices. Which by the way what exactly is a "rate enhancing device"? A lighter trigger pull? A shorter trigger reset?

    In Florida, we have already taken a significant hit our 4th amendment right against seizure without due process. In Florida, folks under the age of 21 can no longer buy firearms of any kind. That was taken away from us by a Republican Governor and a Republican Legislature. This all happened within a few weeks of the Parkland shooting.
     

    Viking1204

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    "remove the right to citizenship for babies of non-citizens and unauthorized immigrants born on U.S.-soil."

    No right exists now for this so I don't get what he's removing and why it's even a thing. If you aren't a legal citizen or resident of this country your kids don't get automatic citizenship at least according to the two links Caveman posted.

     

    Zeroed in

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    He CANNOT nullify the 14th Amendment by a stroke of a pen (Executive Order). But I see his reasoning behind it, in an attempt to stop illegal immigration. But stop worrying, it can't be done by him alone.
     

    FrankT

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    clickbait trash thread started by a resident troublemaker I am sure...The 14h has nothing to do with the 2nd. The 14th does not and was never meant for illegals only citizens of the USA The Great Supreme Court will have to rule on this and then it will be clarified all these illegals can go now!
     

    Snake-Eyes

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    Checks and balances is how our government should work, but it is not working that way under Trump. Congress has refused to act in any way contrary to Trump and so that perfect system envisioned by our founders is not working right now.

    ???

    How did his "country ban freeze" EO's pan out? Blindly followed, or challenged as-nauseum?
    As for bipartisan support of POTUS, are you blind, or simply letting that law degree force you to spout "fact" to fit your narrative again? We've got Congress voting directly along PARTY LINES in many cases. There is ACTIVE "resistance" from members of Congress.

    Dude, we got it. You're concerned about "precedent". Instead of hurling To-Whom-It-May-Concern grenade insults, try calming down. There won't be a rational "precedent" because the two aren't related. You claim as though the 14th Amendment allows something that POTUS is trying to remove. That's NOT the case. His EO's are targeted to remove the misunderstanding and actual dangerous "precedent" that anchor-babies are allowed. There is nothing to "amend" or "re-interpret": the language in the Constitutional Amendment is Clear.

    In the case of the 2nd Amendment, an EO to "amend/reinterpret/remove" would be a battle in and of itself because that language is Clear, too. The danger wouldn't be in any "precedent" from Trump; the danger would be in a system that would allow that Unconstitutional EO to remain unchallenged or, worse, upheld. In that scenario, precedent wouldn't matter to such a corrupt system, and the options for freedom-loving Patriots would be narrowed.

    It will pan out just like all the other EO's: plenty of supporters and haters will defend/attack it, and it will live/die accordingly. That's the silver-lining to such a divided society: your feces better be wired tight to get approved.

    I only responded because I'm sick of seeing threads on a Gun Forum that read like Chicken Little yelling the sky's falling.

    By 'not' saying something, you say something. I don't want someone else reading this thread thinking we all ("Gulf Coast Gun Forum" members) agree because no one responded.
     

    TK5o

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    Im not a constitutional scholar but I would submit that the first 10 ammendments have a little more authority or protection from such actions. That is why only the first 10 are called the bill of rights. I may be way off base but thats just my thoughts, Im always open to learning
     

    Jeb21

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    ???

    How did his "country ban freeze" EO's pan out? Blindly followed, or challenged as-nauseum?
    As for bipartisan support of POTUS, are you blind, or simply letting that law degree force you to spout "fact" to fit your narrative again? We've got Congress voting directly along PARTY LINES in many cases. There is ACTIVE "resistance" from members of Congress.

    The Muslim ban is in place now. It would have been in place sooner if the Administration had some experience in writing out executive orders. As for the rest of your post - folks are voting along party line, regardless of anything else. That is not governing, it is dysfunctional.

    As for the "sky is falling", that is funny coming from folks who preach situational awareness in their own lives, yet will turn a blind eye to any political event that does not directly and immediately affect them. No the sky is not falling, right now, go back to the punch bowl and continue to drink the kool-aide.
     

    wildrider666

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    EOs: One President put them out and another President rescinds them or the Courts Rule on them. Look at Obama anti 2A EO.

    Crimes (Confiscation of profits) Act of 1986 Provides fot the confiscation of the profits of crime, whatever the form into which they have been converted to;

    Does U.S. Citizenship have Value? Of course it does. So if an illegal alien gives birth on U.S. soil, U.S. Citizenship would in fact be a profit for the child AND anchor families. All the direct result of the crime of illegal entry or exceeding Visa limits. Seems pretty simple to enforce existing Law. There is no reason to treat immigration crime any different then other crimes when they profit from the criminal activity.
     

    FrankT

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    The 14th only applies to legal US citizens, so no matter what the rest are illegal, tourists, over stayed visas or otherwise the 14th does not apply to them and Trump can stop that part. It will go to the supreme court no matter if it is legislation or Trump so get it started NOW. Thank you President Trump for standing TALL for America and not the people who try and destroy Her!
     
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