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Digital Night Vision Scope Question

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  • Pudge

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    I am looking for some advice and hopefully first person information and maybe some clarification regarding digital night vision sights; namely the ATN x-sight II and the new ATN x-sight 4k pro or any others that may fall within this realm. I have read everything posted about them on this forum and many other forums but most of it is older models or before bugs were fixed. I am looking for recent reviews and thoughts. To get a better understanding of what I intend to use it for I am mainly looking for this sight to be used on both an ar-15 and a bolt action .308. I am planning on using it to hopefully hunt hogs and coyotes at night and deer during the day. It will be used both in the gulf coast area (I'm assuming most shots under 200m) and in Kansas where, if the scope is able, I am able to take up to 800m shots. After all my research I am leaning towards the 3-14 power models due to realistic ranges, use, and the reviews I've read. What is the realistic ability of these sights? Night/Day? I know the illuminator makes a large impact at night but I'd like to know normal night capabilities without an illuminator and then also what it is capable of with the right illuminator setup. How durable is each unit? Will I have to worry about flash essentially blinding the sight for follow up shots? Actual battery life, not manufacturer claims? I am very intrigued by these sights mostly due to the price point and the features. I am open to other suggestions, such as, a good clip on or thermal but would like to stay under the $1,000 mark. I appreciate your help.
     

    FrankT

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    save your money, go thermal Pulsar Apex is reasonable but nothing under 1000, save more money. atn is made in china, you can try mine if you wish 200yds or so, do not waste your money. 200 yds is doable 800 no way, remember you are looking at a tv screen . We both live in Crestview, you are more than welcome to look thru mine day and night
     

    wildrider666

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    IMHO and within your price range: I think your asking for too much distance accuracy for a piece of equipment you want to dual purpose.

    Since you've done a lot of research there's no point rehashing multiple Zeros and rifle swaps or the real world Zero repeatability. I'd split the requirements to a dawn to dusk regular scope with 800 yard potential and a seperate rifle fot closer night work, with a QD NV/Thermal that can be attached to the other rifle.

    On a Sig 556 I use a Sig ECHO1 thermal. Its a Reflex type sight with adj 1× or 2× magnification with multiple screen, color, heat and recital choices (you can design your own or down load others). Its advertised to pick up thermal radiation @ 1K yards and can measure target range to 300 yards.
    NO illuminator required. Works day or night but I wouldn't be hunting out to 800 yards with it. No "see through" capability when offline.

    On another Sig 556 I run 2×7 and a two others with Reflex Dots. All have backup folding MBUS.

    Different tools for different jobs but they can be pressed into wider uses.

    I hope you find an acceptable solution.
     

    MauserLarry

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    I'm with Wildrider and Frank, I don't know of any night vision scope you can make an 800m shot with. that's a pretty good shot in open daylight with a good scope.
     

    Pudge

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    Thank you for the quick feedback. I realize I should have made a couple things a little clearer as well. I was only expecting about 200m at night but was wanting to see if first hand experience varied. I was just wanting to know if during daylight the scope could pick out a deer at 800m. I know that is a far piece and realistically most shots even during daylight would be only 400m and in but I would like to know if the sight itself is capable of seeing a deer at 800m. Wildrider, I have various setups as well for each specific task and am just looking to add a capability but would like to know if it could be pressed into these uses if needed. FrankT, I appreciate the words as I know most of the info I read on this forum regarding this topic was from you. I would love to come gain a little insight from you. Unfortunately, I am currently deployed, which is part of the reason I am doing the research now so I can narrow my choices before I come home, but will gladly take you up on that offer if it holds when I return. I am new to hunting hogs at night, however I have a lot of experience beneath NODs and thermals and greatly understand the cry once buy once truth but I just can't justify the expense of something that costs more than a new vehicle for a hobby. I hope this clarifies a few things and again thank you for the feedback.
     

    FrankT

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    Pudge, you can come over when you get home, do not buy before you look thru one and hold the brick that it is. You can get into a Pulsar or Armasight thermal for under 2K and for less than 3 you can get a better one. I know that is a bit of cash but no longer do you have to spend 8-12 K to thermal hunt. Stay safe!
     

    Telum Pisces

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    OK, I will go against the advice with a caveat. I love my ATN X-Sight for shot below 200 yards. It has it's limitations for good quality views at night past that. But with a good IR light, 100-200 yard shots are no problem for me in pitch black.

    The draw backs which have kind of been fixed in the new version is the battery life. The internal batteries provide crap hunting time. So I have to lug around an external battery pack to keep it running for more than a few hours.
     

    MauserLarry

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    Pudge, you can come over when you get home, do not buy before you look thru one and hold the brick that it is. You can get into a Pulsar or Armasight thermal for under 2K and for less than 3 you can get a better one. I know that is a bit of cash but no longer do you have to spend 8-12 K to thermal hunt. Stay safe!

    Can't beat a deal like this!
     

    MauserLarry

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    "But with a good IR light, 100-200 yard shots are no problem for me in pitch black."

    That's the key right there. Buy a good add on light and the night belongs to you. I may do like Frank and go thermal later on but at hog hunting ranges the night vision is more than adequate and bunches cheaper.
     

    FrankT

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    well, follow up shots are difficult with digital as the bloom and smoke in the IR light blinds you. A good IR light it 100 to 250, an external battery cord and pouch can be bought for 175, good internal batteries are 35 for 4, so add all that up for an inferior scope and you are close to entry level thermal, then you own the night. Also try sending you scope in for repair at atn and that is a nightmare, also they stop updating and repairing the scope faster than other brands. Basically you get what you pay for, good for 1 shot kills in 200 yds. Anyone looking can try mine on for size it is on a 6.8 if it will hold zero and not change between uses atleast you can see yor sight picture day and night. My recommendation it the Proton if going digital but you have the same issues. actually the 3D clipon $399 is the best buy and does the same thing keeping your day scope on the rifle. Made in GA by a great guy who stands behind his product

    https://www.3dnightvision.com/store/c2/Night_Vision_Units.html
     

    MauserLarry

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    I never mentioned my unit for some reason, I have the Photon. We only had "starlights" when I was in the Army so I was familiar with the technology and felt comfortable with it. First I've heard of the clip on unit, I've have probably gotten it had I known. Kept me from swapping scopes back and forth for sure.
     

    FrankT

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    I never mentioned my unit for some reason, I have the Photon. We only had "starlights" when I was in the Army so I was familiar with the technology and felt comfortable with it. First I've heard of the clip on unit, I've have probably gotten it had I known. Kept me from swapping scopes back and forth for sure.

    The new Photons are great but even the old ones beat the view from atn and no customer service! The clip on for $399 is the way to go for us broke or cheap guys to make do till we go thermal and put our big boy pants on.

    saying all this about ATN, I must add...when they were excellent thermals and high dollar a member here got one and it is the bomb, why? it has a FLIR core instead of what they use now. I will let that member out himself. Saying that, it is a Thermal not a digital
     

    Pudge

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    Does the photon have a bad issue with blooming as well? That is a big worry of mine especially running it on my AR. I want to make sure that I have the chance at follow up shots for packs. Is an entry level thermal that much better than a digital night scope or would I need to save up for a little bit better option? My biggest concern is dropping a lot of money on a sight and it not filling the intended roll. If thermal is the way to go, maybe someone can chime in with a good starter option. Speaking of options, are there decent clip on (in front of scope) thermal options at a reasonable price? FrankT, what kind of range can you get with your pulsar apex? I appreciate the help as you can only tell so much from videos. I'm looking forward to getting back and maybe getting some actual hands on looking through. That will probably help more than anything but I'd like to narrow it down before then.
     

    FrankT

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    Pudge, all digital night vision blooms, anytime you are using an IR light you have bloom from smoke, flash, trees, brush grass, anything it can reflect off, even fog. Thermal does not. Thermal entry level will get you to 200yds, then the more expensive the more distance. You might be able to detect heat at 600 yds but need to be in 200 to ID what is giving off the heat. The Apex can be shot to 400, the pulsar trails further but at night you are winging it over 200-300 yds anyway. You are looking at a screen either way not like a day scope where you are looking thru glass. I have 4 AR's with different glass on each one set up for a specific purpose, my particular style and animal I am hunting. There is not 1 able to do it all. You are a trained shooter with an excellent day scope and lots of trigger time to kill at 700-800 yds. In my opinion of course everyone may not agree. Good glass costs money as Sawman has drilled into me.
     

    MauserLarry

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    Pudge as Frank T says any IR light source will reflect. There are adjustments you can make to cut it down and be able to live with it. I also don't have a place to hunt where they are all milling around in a big pack where you can get multiple shots so I'm not concerned with that. Hell, there are people running around shooting hogs with a spotlight and a green lens and a glass scope so anything you do will be a help. I myself will eventually go thermal and am considering a thermal monocular to spot with. I looked at the Sig as Sawman suggested but it's not really a good sight at this point but with their reputation I'm sure it will be good in the future. I have years of experience working at night with large earthmoving equipment and can tell you everything you do at night will be harder no matter what. You are welcome to come look through my scope if it'll help you with a decision. Figure out your budget and make a pro versus con list of the various systems and there, you have your answer. Frank can guide you on the best thermal and I recommend the Photon........so good luck!
     

    FrankT

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    Pudge as Frank T says any IR light source will reflect. There are adjustments you can make to cut it down and be able to live with it. I also don't have a place to hunt where they are all milling around in a big pack where you can get multiple shots so I'm not concerned with that. Hell, there are people running around shooting hogs with a spotlight and a green lens and a glass scope so anything you do will be a help. I myself will eventually go thermal and am considering a thermal monocular to spot with. I looked at the Sig as Sawman suggested but it's not really a good sight at this point but with their reputation I'm sure it will be good in the future. I have years of experience working at night with large earthmoving equipment and can tell you everything you do at night will be harder no matter what. You are welcome to come look through my scope if it'll help you with a decision. Figure out your budget and make a pro versus con list of the various systems and there, you have your answer. Frank can guide you on the best thermal and I recommend the Photon........so good luck!

    I have killed more hogs at night with a red or green light than I have with night vision. With thermal you just own the night, plain and simple. That echo is just inadequate in my opinion.
     

    SAWMAN

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    Pudge, another option for you would be a green laser designator. Check out the LASER GENETICS site.
    I have two of their models that "could" be for sale. One is the ND3 and the other is the ND3X50.
    I will take pics of both units and post them on this thread. If you want a super long range visable green light designator,these are it.
    Using your normal daytime scope you can easily shoot out to 300yds+ depending on the scopes magnification and quality of glass. I have tried both of these with both Ziess and Leupold and using about 4-9X seems about perfect for me.
    Both units are ANIB with all the mounts and other stuff that came with it from the factory.
    These will be posted in the forums FOR SALE section in the near future.
    For the hunter that wants to use his regular daytime optics,visable green light,and stay <$300. this would be one option.
    Feel free to PM me with any questions. --- SAWMAN
     

    SAWMAN

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    Couple of pics of my laser designators.
    These units come with mounting hardware so that you can mount it on top of,or to the side of a scope with a 1" main tube.
    You can also put these units in a UTG ring (the body is 1") then clip them to a standard pic rail on the side of your AR.
    They will spot where the scope is looking. They are an EXTREMELY bright laser light. You can adjust the width of the beam at the front of the laser.
    These units come with a pressure switch also. Using these units you can see the entire hog or coyote,not just the eye glow. --- SAWMAN
     

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