New Florida Laws and private sales

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  • dirtfarmer

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    Will private sales of firearms be affected under the new laws.
    It is my understanding that in addition to having to be 21 to purchase from an ffl, and a three day wait on all firearms, will private sales change.

    thanks
     

    Big Shrek

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    Well, a Concealed Carry Permit bypasses a lot, if not all of that...
    so I've not read the particulars since we get to ignore most of it anyway.
    Good question, though!

    Anyone read into the Legal end of the Florida Law changes as far as private sales??
     

    stage20

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    Must be same resident of state and 21. Not a known felon and cannot be mentally I'll, but all these fools got something wrong with them nowadays lol
     

    wildrider666

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    Here's the Section copied from the current Statute 790.065: (13) A person younger than 21 years of age may not purchase a firearm. The sale or transfer of a firearm to a person younger than 21 years of age may not be made or facilitated by a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer. A person who violates this subsection commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s.*775.082, s.*775.083, or s.*775.084. The prohibitions of this subsection do not apply to the purchase of a rifle or shotgun by a law enforcement officer or correctional officer, as those terms are defined in s.*943.10(1), (2), (3), (6), (7), (8), or (9), or a servicemember as defined in s.*250.01.

    My non lawyer interpretation: The first sentence makes it a crime chargeable against the under 21 buyer for both retail and private transactions . The second sentence makes it a crime chargable to licensed sellers. The third sentence "A person" this is standard boiler plate but a prosecutor could say in this case it expands the reach to all sellers per his understanding of the "intent" of the "Change" to the Law. IMHO

    Administratively: Private purchase by adults 18 to under 21 is not addressed clearly if at all, in the recent changes to FL Statute. The age increase from 18 to 21 was to the Section governing buyer age to purchase and age restrictions for Licensed Dealers to comply with. Fl 790.17 and 775.83 identify crimes of selling /transfer weapons/firearms to minors under 18. It doesn't reference anything about older persons, it does not state that sale/transfer to people 18 to 21 privately is legal. That's clearly trying to add context by its absence (its not listed as illegal, its not: right?). 790.065 (13) Now makes it illegal to purchase firearms by someone under 21 and that sentence, in legal terms the "obligates the entire field of Law" (all applications). The only gray area is there may or may not be a violation for the Private Seller.

    The Link is an Attorney's opinion. I don't think he goes in depth enough breaking it down.
    https://www.uslawshield.com/firearms-purchase-age-sb7026/
     
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    SAWMAN

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    My question is this - - -> How much "due diligence " does the SELLER owe the state ??
    To stay out of jail do we have to ask the buyer if he is 21. If he is a convicted felon. If he can legally own a firearm in the state of Fla ?? If he is a wacko,nutcase,screwball ?? If he just got finished beating his wife or family pet ??
    What are my responsibilities during a sale given the prospective buyer could be a undercover ATF,FBI,CIA,NAACP,or #metoo, agent ??
    I do not have access to the background check database. So what the fork does the state,feds,or other, want from little ol' me ??
    I'll give 'em a good dose of common sense . . . but beyond that . . . WHAT ?? --- SAWMAN
     
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    FLT

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    So ,it’ll be business as usual for hood rats. And will only effect law abiding citizens.
     
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    My question is this - - -> How much "due diligence " does the SELLER owe the state ??
    To stay out of jail do we have to ask the buyer if he is 21. If he is a convicted felon. If he can legally own a firearm in the state of Fla ?? If he is a wacko,nutcase,screwball ?? If he just got finished beating his wife or family pet ??
    What are my responsibilities during a sale given the prospective buyer could be a undercover ATF,FBI,CIA,NAACP,or #metoo, agent ??
    I do not have access to the background check database. So what the fork does the state,feds,or other, want from little ol' me ??
    I'll give 'em a good dose of common sense . . . but beyond that . . . WHAT ?? --- SAWMAN

    I think the same effort should be used, as would be used when making sure girls are of legal age.
     

    FLT

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    So you just take their word for it?
     

    FrankT

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    When the ATF or another agency is testing you for a set up they generally toss in a comment that would disqualify them thus you selling the weapon to them is a breach of the law. I stay away from under 50 posters here due to that and generally deal with members in good standing. I generally flash my permit letting them know i have one. I have taken a pic of DL and permit on people no one knows.
     

    Sandspur6

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    I guess if you decide to ask, take their word.

    I do take their word, but I use a Bill of Sale on which they have to state in writing that may legally purchase the gun AND I write their Florida DL number on it, thus showing that they are in fact a Florida resident. I tell them that the form is just for me and that it doesn't go any where. Anyone who isn't willing to sign this Bill of Sale doesn't buy a gun from me. Due diligence.
     

    MAXman

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    My comment was in regards to the previous two comments, not the gun sale issue.

    I think the difference is that while a 16 year old may look 18 or even 20, and some 21 year olds have baby faces, usually when a woman hits 30 it’s pretty obvious.

    On the other hand, you can’t always tell a felon is a felon just by looking at them.
     

    Telum Pisces

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    My question is this - - -> How much "due diligence " does the SELLER owe the state ??
    To stay out of jail do we have to ask the buyer if he is 21. If he is a convicted felon. If he can legally own a firearm in the state of Fla ?? If he is a wacko,nutcase,screwball ?? If he just got finished beating his wife or family pet ??
    What are my responsibilities during a sale given the prospective buyer could be a undercover ATF,FBI,CIA,NAACP,or #metoo, agent ??
    I do not have access to the background check database. So what the fork does the state,feds,or other, want from little ol' me ??
    I'll give 'em a good dose of common sense . . . but beyond that . . . WHAT ?? --- SAWMAN

    You have to knowingly sell to a prohibited person. So if no words are said and they look of age and you swap cash and go about your business, then that's that! As the seller, you are not on the hook unless you know or should reasonably know by something they say that they are a prohibited person etc....
     

    wildrider666

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    FWIW: Under Fl Statutes, A privaty party (non retail/wholesale related person) who sells or provides alcohol to minors faces criminal liability. Neither knowledge of age or intent is required for conviction.

    With alcohol sale to a minor the sole defense is false Id was presented AND the minors appearance was such that a prudent person would believe the person to be of legal age.

    I don't know of any official application of the above to private party gun sales, its just a comparable and could be what the State expects as "due diligence" because thats the only defense! .
     

    FrommerStop

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    I seldom buy guns from individuals and am at the point in life where I plan to not to buy much in way of any new ones. If I do buy it must serve an important purpose in my armory.
    But I am at the point where I need to to sell some guns that I will never use. If the gun that I am selling is untraceable I will likely just want to see that the person looks like they are well past 21 and that the sale takes place in FL. I have guns that i purchased 30 or more years ago from individuals that did not know me and also I did not know them. Many of these are not so useful to me these days. Some even have modest colector's value.
     

    Welldoya

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    I’ve bought and sold a few guns over the years in private sales and only had one transaction that I decided not to complete.
    That was with a cheap snubnose .22.
    I looked at the guy’s Facebook profile and didn’t like what I saw.
    I think if you are selling a hunting gun, you are probably going to be ok as far as the type people wanting it.
    The problems come with the cheaper tactical, snubs and 9s that might appeal to a criminal or younger person.
     

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