APOD Firearms

The Malinois quite a dog, but not what I decided on.

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  • FrommerStop

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    Things can be different when your prey fights back. Eventually multiple dogs did take the the fence jumper down. I want more laid back and suitable around neighbors and visitors and children.
     

    Garpo

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    A neighbor that lives across the street from me has one of these dogs. It is extremely well disciplined but I pity anyone acting aggressively to him or his family.
     
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    Garpo

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    Owners of this breed of dog,check the fine print of your homeowners policy. --- SAWMAN


    Only if the policy has any teeth in it.....pun intended and the association enforces the rules. Although I live in a nice development, Quail Creek, there are a few people that always ignore the rules.....this guy has ignored several without any consequences.
     

    SAWMAN

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    I was referring to the insurance policy,but your right,could be something in the HOA rules re. this also. ---- SAWMAN
     
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    Jester896

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    A buddy of mine and his wife import and train these dogs for Protection, Police (bomb & drug), Battle Buddies, & etc. He left here and went to Von Liche Kennels then they opened their own place in WI, Jessifanny Canine Services, that little gurl on their site can work a dog!
     

    M60Gunner

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    They were by far the most popular MWDs in our unit. Interestingly the one with the most bites on handlers was a black lab!
     

    FrommerStop

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    They were by far the most popular MWDs in our unit. Interestingly the one with the most bites on handlers was a black lab!
    A dog on my yard that bites me would not be able to repeat it. There are people that tolerate that from their dogs. A good dog is precious and hard to replace, a dog that bites the hands that feeds it is not wanted.
    But. I know very little of Schutzhund Training and how K9 dogs are trained. Obviously the police do need dogs that attack and stop on command.
    In our white english group and also some related american bulldog groups such training is frowned upon. Not thought to be needed for properly bred dogs.
    JDJ developer of the Johnson American bulldog. "The majority of dogs that I have had returned to me over the years have been returned following protection training. I feel that these dogs can be trained from a protection or Schutzhund type standpoint, but I think that the dog trainer must be very highly skilled. These dogs can be extremely ferocious towards any animal and to direct this degree of fury towards a human being is dangerous. I know of no quicker way to ruin one of these dogs than to place him in the hands of a less-than-expert dog trainer who trains him to attack human beings." JDJ
    The worst mankillers ever bred in the Americas were the Cuban Bloodhounds that were Mastiff crossbred with some sort of wolfhounds.
    Below painting depicting conquistador dogs killing native americans in the presence of spanish conquistadors.
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    La Monteria Infernal …… The dogs the Conquistadors brought with them were Mastiff breeds who were hardly the lap variety or destined for the plate. These attack dogs, often wearing their own armor, were the common European shock and awe tactic of the period. The first documented New World use of these canine swat teams occurred in 1495 when Bartholomew Columbus, Chris’s brother, used 20 mastiffs in a battle waged at Santa Maris el Antigua, Darien with his brother employing the same approach a year later. These dogs were trained to pursue, disembowel and dismember humans and to this purpose, enjoyed a human diet in the Americas. The Spanish reveled in holding human hunts called “la Monteria infernal “ where much sport was made of chasing and killing the local men, women and children. The noted Spanish apologist Bartolme de La Casas has left us numerous accounts of the exploits of these hounds from hell and it is easy to understand why these horrific memes still prevail in the cultures of Latin America. The names of many of these dogs so esteemed by the Spaniards still live on and here are but a few: Bercerruillo the terror of Borinquen, until he was fallen by 50 arrows, received a salary one and a half times that of an archer from his owner Ponce de Leon.
    Leoncillo, Bercerruillo’s son, was Balboa’s warrior, earned over 500 gold pesos in booty during his many campaigns, and he was the first Western dog to see the Pacific.
    Bruto, De Soto’s champion, received 20 slaves as spoils before his career ended.
    Scores of firsthand accounts tell us how the dogs attacked local Caciques [chiefs] both dead and alive. Perhaps this information may help to explain the innate fear held by many cultures for man’s best friend and fiend. https://elvalleinformation.wordpress.com/spanish-war-dogs/
     

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    M60Gunner

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    Wow interesting I knew nothing of this, thanks. I was not a handler but several of my buddies were so I got to wear the wrap and later the full suit while acting as the bad guy for training purposes. Eye opening to feel the power of the bites even through the protective gear. One time a handler friend of mine was on the LE Desk with several of us and he had his malinois. He would ask the dog simple math questions and the dog would bark the correct answer. Like he would say whats 4 + 2 and the dog would bark six times. It was the craziest thing and we could never catch him cuing the dog even though we were less than two feet away. Another time I was with a handler and the dog turned on him so he used the leash to swing the dog off him and then held the dog off the ground to choke the dog unconscious. Not knowing any better I thought the dog was dead and was stunned when he hopped up and shook it off after being out for about 20 or 30 seconds. He explained the dogs windpipe is sturdier than ours and the leash simply constricted it.
     

    Snake-Eyes

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    The larynx and trachea of a canine are not "sturdier"... those working dogs just have a lot more muscle in their necks than a comparatively-sized human.

    That handler, who you witnessed choke his own dog unconscious because it "turned on him", needs more training, at a minimum.

    Canine, and human, necks are NOT designed to be collapsed from outward force without suffering damage (whether temporary or permanent). Especially if it's restricting oxygen to the point of unconsciousness.

    That handler was extremely reckless, lazy, and most-likely acting in anger. Not an example to follow...
     

    MAXman

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    M60gunner,
    I have what was said to be a husky/gsd mix, who needs to be walked daily. We do 6 laps in the neighborhood, which is 3 miles. Idk if she counts laps or can just judge distance, but if I try and cut it short she resists, unless it’s after the 6th lap.
     

    M60Gunner

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    Thanks. The dog was the black lab I mentioned earlier and he bit the handler and this did seem to infuriate the handler. It was a tense scene to witness.
     

    Snake-Eyes

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    Thanks. The dog was the black lab I mentioned earlier and he bit the handler and this did seem to infuriate the handler. It was a tense scene to witness.

    Yeah: using a leash to angrily choke a dog unconscious is animal abuse. That handler shouldn't be allowed around MWD's.

    To the topic of discussion, a Malinois, or any well-trained working dog should be treated with Respect. They have the ability (some much more than others) to obliterate any human target they wish. They refrain from doing so, out of training, trust, and a human/animal bond.

    The fact that the MWD "turned on him" is more a comment about the handler, than any judgement on the dog.
     

    tfl

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    Yeah: using a leash to angrily choke a dog unconscious is animal abuse. That handler shouldn't be allowed around MWD's.

    To the topic of discussion, a Malinois, or any well-trained working dog should be treated with Respect. They have the ability (some much more than others) to obliterate any human target they wish. They refrain from doing so, out of training, trust, and a human/animal bond.

    The fact that the MWD "turned on him" is more a comment about the handler, than any judgement on the dog.
    Okay, I am going to play devils advocate here. Raised dogs since I was 9 years old. German shepherds, Chesapeak Bay Retrivers, Doberman Pinchers, beagles, Boxers, Boxer Pit Bull mixes Daschund/Terrier mixes. Too be honest I have been bitten by more cats than dogs. Was never an expert at it but yet you are telling us that you can get into the head of that dog and the handler and actually know why the dog did what it did or why the handler did what he did? Just wondering.
     

    MAXman

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    Okay, I am going to play devils advocate here. Raised dogs since I was 9 years old. German shepherds, Chesapeak Bay Retrivers, Doberman Pinchers, beagles, Boxers, Boxer Pit Bull mixes Daschund/Terrier mixes. Too be honest I have been bitten by more cats than dogs. Was never an expert at it but yet you are telling us that you can get into the head of that dog and the handler and actually know why the dog did what it did or why the handler did what he did? Just wondering.

    My (limited) experience with military working dogs is very different than that of pets, obedience training, hunting dogs etc. But the one thing that’s universally true is if you can’t control your dog that’s on you, not them. As smart as some breeds and individual dogs may be, humans are smarter and therefore responsible for their animals.

    And credit where it’s due, if you’ve managed to been bit by more cats than wiener dogs you’re doing something very right. My wife’s dachshund is one of the most well behaved and mellow I’ve met, but will still snap as a reaction to pain or startled out of sleep. He got me for the first time last weekend with the later.
     

    tfl

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    I will say that some dogs are much smarter than their handlers. Some, not so much. Dogs or handler? But, it is a different world between thier thinking and our thinking. Who is right, who is wrong? The dog or the handler?
     

    Snake-Eyes

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    Okay, I am going to play devils advocate here. Raised dogs since I was 9 years old. German shepherds, Chesapeak Bay Retrivers, Doberman Pinchers, beagles, Boxers, Boxer Pit Bull mixes Daschund/Terrier mixes. Too be honest I have been bitten by more cats than dogs. Was never an expert at it but yet you are telling us that you can get into the head of that dog and the handler and actually know why the dog did what it did or why the handler did what he did? Just wondering.

    Welcome to the Forum. Let's see...

    We should all be able to agree that None of us can read minds, right? So, your "question" is ridiculous, at face value, but I'll address what is probably your concern.

    I never said WHY any of it happened. I spoke to the handler's actions, and hell yeah, I passed judgement. I may not be able to read his mind, but I can make educated inferences.

    It's an MWD, and the handler is responsible for that MWD. Apparently this MWD already bit multiple times NOT on command. The handler should know either what sets off their dog, or at a minimum should be able to recognize the warning sign behavior of their dog to know it's being pushed down that road.

    If this handler knew his dog bites "unpredictably", then it should be addressed concurrently with both training and extra precaution. And until he can solve the situation, when it bites again unpredictably, he shouldn't be surprised.

    So, here's a handler whose dog acts out. Instead of being prepared for it, (because it has happened before), he acts In Anger and Chokes His Dog Unconscious.

    If you're attacked by a dog to the point that you need to subdue it to save yourself, and you manage to choke it out, great. But while it's out for those 20 to 30 seconds, as was mentioned, secure the mouth with a muzzle, or an expedient/makeshift muzzle. Perhaps have the non-k9 Handlers get out of the area?

    So, no, I don't know exactly what was going through either animal's mind, but I'm pretty sure it was a situation that most likely could've been either avoided altogether or at least handled much more professionally.

    To bring this slight derail back on topic: a Malinois is energetic. Working dogs need to spend energy. Their handler should be able to read the behavior cues to know how the dog is doing. Professional handling requires patience, and consistent application of appropriate inputs. If someone isn't willing to put in the time and effort, then they shouldn't bring certain dog breeds into their lives.
     

    tfl

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    Welcome to the Forum. Let's see...

    We should all be able to agree that None of us can read minds, right? So, your "question" is ridiculous, at face value, but I'll address what is probably your concern.

    I never said WHY any of it happened. I spoke to the handler's actions, and hell yeah, I passed judgement. I may not be able to read his mind, but I can make educated inferences.

    It's an MWD, and the handler is responsible for that MWD. Apparently this MWD already bit multiple times NOT on command. The handler should know either what sets off their dog, or at a minimum should be able to recognize the warning sign behavior of their dog to know it's being pushed down that road.

    If this handler knew his dog bites "unpredictably", then it should be addressed concurrently with both training and extra precaution. And until he can solve the situation, when it bites again unpredictably, he shouldn't be surprised.

    So, here's a handler whose dog acts out. Instead of being prepared for it, (because it has happened before), he acts In Anger and Chokes His Dog Unconscious.

    If you're attacked by a dog to the point that you need to subdue it to save yourself, and you manage to choke it out, great. But while it's out for those 20 to 30 seconds, as was mentioned, secure the mouth with a muzzle, or an expedient/makeshift muzzle. Perhaps have the non-k9 Handlers get out of the area?

    So, no, I don't know exactly what was going through either animal's mind, but I'm pretty sure it was a situation that most likely could've been either avoided altogether or at least handled much more professionally.

    To bring this slight derail back on topic: a Malinois is energetic. Working dogs need to spend energy. Their handler should be able to read the behavior cues to know how the dog is doing. Professional handling requires patience, and consistent application of appropriate inputs. If someone isn't willing to put in the time and effort, then they shouldn't bring certain dog breeds into their lives.

    I am claiming BS since you made the comments of: "Yeah: using a leash to angrily choke a dog unconscious is animal abuse. That handler shouldn't be allowed around MWD's.
    The fact that the MWD "turned on him" is more a comment about the handler, than any judgement on the dog." Seems like to me you know it all and have already passed judgement one way or the other. My guess is that you are full of it dont have a clue. How many dogs have you raised in your life time? Tell you what, I got you figured out already so dont bother responding! ;)
     
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