DK Firearms

Frangible bullets

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Gulf Coast States

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • Daezee

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    13   0   0
    Joined
    Dec 17, 2012
    Messages
    3,355
    Points
    113
    Location
    Milton
    A thread about my reloading of frangible bullets was requested. Currently I'm reloading 108gr .308" M160 frangibles, 50gr .224" MK311 Mod 0 frangibles and 75gr .355" frangibles.

    The 75gr .355" bullets are being loaded for my S&W .380 EZ. CCI #500 primers, RP brass 3.2gr Bullseye, .975" oal, 939fps, only enough crimp to remove the case neck bell, otherwise a heavier crimp breaks the bullet. Fine accuracy for a .380, about 2" at 12yd. I buy them when on sale for in the 5 cents each range. Made of compressed copper dust.

    The 50gr .224" bullets are used in 5.56 rifles. CCI #41 primers, mixed brass, 23.5gr IMR4895 (23.5gr W748 shot just as well), 2.25" oal, no crimp. Gives in the 2700fps range in a 16" bbl and 2400-2500fps in a 10.5" bbl. Velocity differs among bbls of the same length. These bullets, not having any lead in them, are long for their weight. They need a 1 in 7 twist. If the AR rifle likes them, they shoot 1 1/2" at 100yd (my Ruger Precision will do 1 1/8" 5 shots with them at 100yd). A 1 in 9 twist bbl that "likes" them will give around 2" at 34yd; a 1 in 9 that doesn't like them will give around 6" at 34yd. I could shoot them faster, but even though they are frangible, speed kills steel, so I worked up a mild, but accurate load. Not all 1 in 7 twist bbls like them. They have some type of dark brown coating on the tip, I suspect to ID them or help protect the compressed copper when being fed from the mag into the chamber. I buy them when on sale for in the 5-6 cent range. Made of compressed copper dust with a gliding metal jacket.

    The 108gr .308" M160 bullets are from WWII. Used in training for firing at aluminum armored Bell P-63 Kingcobra planes and in sub caliber devices for shooting at tanks with cannons. Later they were loaded in 7.62x51 ammo for use in sub caliber devices. Made of compressed lead dust and bakelite plastic. Don't crimp or they will break.

    We (my shooting friends and I) use them in 300 Blackout in subsonic (with light loads of Bullseye, AA#2, or Unique) suppressed shooting (I also use them for night hunting armadillos) and in supersonic (~1700fps) Blackout with H110 and WC820. The subsonic load I use is 3.3gr Bullseye, 2.2" oal, CCI #400 primers, giving 1034fps in my 16" Handi Rifle. My supersonic load is 13.8gr H110, 2.2" oal, Wolf KVB223M primers (no longer imported), giving 1711fps out of a 10.3" Delta Co arms bbl (I have an adjustable gas block and open it wider to allow that load to function the short bbl AR). Note the 2.2" oal...if seated out longer, they can break upon hitting the feed ramp about 5% of the time. Even if the tip is broken off, they still shoot good enough for our plinking.

    In 30/40 Krag, I use CCI LR primers, 15.7gr 2400, 3.25" oal, 1917fps out of my 28" Hi Wall bbl.

    In 30/06, I use CCI LR primers, 14.4gr 2400, 3.34" oal, 1646fps out of my 24" M1903NM bbl.

    In .308, I use CCI LR primers, 33.5gr IMR4895, 2.8" oal, velocity not measured, but with the gas valve closed (no gas exiting the rifle) it functions my FAL 100%.

    Basically, bbls either like or hate the M160 frangibles. All the bbls listed above love those M160 bullets. Being made of compressed bakelite and lead, they are easy on the bores, giving about 1/3rd the bore wear that jacketed bullets give. I've tried them in my LRB M14, but it didn't like them. My FAL has an Austrian surplus bbl and it loves them; a friend's FAL with its Austrian surplus bbl hates them.

    A sample of M160 bullets were bought more or less as a joke by a friend who handed them out to try. They worked so well in guns that liked them, that we got together on a group buy of around 50,000 of them at 4 cents each delivered with extra bullets thrown in to make up for any broken bullets in the bunch. The Milton post office called and said the mailman didn't have enough room in his vehicle for all the ammo cans, could I come to the loading dock and they'd load them in my vehicle. We later found another source and bought about another 10,000 of them.

    We have done some silly experiments with the M160's. Although they break apart on steel, they penetrate will into pine boards. In a test to see what velocity they could stand, out of a 30/06 when the velocity exceeded 3000fps they would disintegrate in flight, never making it to the target.

    DSCN3542.JPG DSCN3541.JPG
     

    Attachments

    • DSCN3541.JPG
      DSCN3541.JPG
      75 KB · Views: 394
    • DSCN3542.JPG
      DSCN3542.JPG
      76.5 KB · Views: 413

    FrommerStop

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Joined
    Apr 7, 2016
    Messages
    6,897
    Points
    113
    Location
    NWFL
    I will have to find a source for M160 bullets. I would like to try them in a PTR91 and an AK just because.
    I had never heard of them before.
     

    JWlineman

    Master
    Super Moderator
    GCGF Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    5   0   0
    Joined
    Oct 11, 2012
    Messages
    9,176
    Points
    113
    Location
    Pensacola
    This is why I like the forum! Great work sir and thanks for the update! Keep em coming.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
     

    Daezee

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    13   0   0
    Joined
    Dec 17, 2012
    Messages
    3,355
    Points
    113
    Location
    Milton
    I now mainly get my pulled bullets from Rocky Mountain Reloading and American Reloading. They get in all sorts of pulled bullets, but normally do not list their sources (competition among sellers and some non-disclosure agreements with the sources). One needs to visit their sites at least weekly, as "interesting" pulls get posted and often sell out quickly before they are widely known. Get on their email lists too and they will send codes for sale prices. I have no affiliation with them other than a customer. Shipping is free.

    Here's an example: Barnes 110gr Blacktip 300 Blackout bullets are normally in the range of 64-66 cents each new and sometimes hard to find due to demand for loading in the Blackout. American Reloading got some pulls in for IIRC about 16 cents each shipped. I lucked out and got 750 of them. Out of the 750, less than 5 were too bad to hunt with (so I used them for bbl fouling). Testing showed the pulls were just as accurate with same POI as new ones.

    Another example: Got some Barnes 130gr HP all copper bullets pulled from Remington Hog Hammer Blackout ammo. These bullets have never been sold on the open market; Barnes only made them for the Remington ammo. Got 500 of them IIRC for about 20 cents or less each...they are accurate and expand just fine with deeper penetration for hogs.

    50gr .224 frangibiles: Got a small batch for testing, found they worked well for me, contacted Rocky Mountain saying how bout a discount if I order more than the quantities listed for sale. Within an hour I got an email to revisit the web site and a higher quantity discount had been posted. American Reloading often has a sale on them, but are currently running low as of this week. I've got somewhere around 14,000 of them left and will be testing them in a new bbl this morning. As posted elsewhere, I use them on steel targets.

    75gr .355 frangibiles: Was ordering some other bullets and asked for some samples for testing...no problem. Samples arrived, shot well, and I placed orders for 3000 of them.

    Hi Tech used to be THE place for pulls, but they haven't had nearly as much for several years. They still have a web site with some for sale though.

    If you like the "thrill of the chase" in finding shooting stuff, you'll like tracking down bargains on pulled bullets. Sometimes the pulls will be a mixed weights and makes...I sit in the TV room with a digital scale and sort them out.

    Some other finds: Sierra 220gr .308 Match Kings in the 20 cent range and Sierra 77gr .224 Match Kings in the 16 cent range. Testing showed those pulls just as accurate as new and shooting to the same POI. Pulled 62gr green tip M855's for 2 cents each...their pull marks were so deep that we called them "3rds" instead of "2nds", but they shot just as well as new ones. Could list more finds, but you get the idea.

    PS. This has been said before, but bears repeating. If you find a bargain on a bullet you like, JUMP on it NOW...he who hesitates is lost.
     
    Last edited:

    Daezee

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    13   0   0
    Joined
    Dec 17, 2012
    Messages
    3,355
    Points
    113
    Location
    Milton
    I will have to find a source for M160 bullets. I would like to try them in a PTR91 and an AK just because.
    I had never heard of them before.

    M160's in 7.62x39 bolt action rifles: They sucked in my rifle; shot superbly in a friend's rifle (both rifles were Ruger model 77's). FrommerStop, if we can ever get together, I'll give you a hundred or so to test.
     

    FrommerStop

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Joined
    Apr 7, 2016
    Messages
    6,897
    Points
    113
    Location
    NWFL
    Where do you shot mainly?
    I have memberships at ERML and PRPC.
    I can likely trade you something that I have a lot of. I know it is offered freely and if possible I like to do the same.
     

    Daezee

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    13   0   0
    Joined
    Dec 17, 2012
    Messages
    3,355
    Points
    113
    Location
    Milton
    Where do you shot mainly?
    I have memberships at ERML and PRPC.
    I can likely trade you something that I have a lot of. I know it is offered freely and if possible I like to do the same.

    PRPC Wednesday mornings and Sunday mornings. We've probably seen each other, we just don't go around with name tags labeled FrommerStop or Daezee (one of my beagles). Will bag up some frangibles and put them in my truck.
     

    FrommerStop

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Joined
    Apr 7, 2016
    Messages
    6,897
    Points
    113
    Location
    NWFL
    PRPC Wednesday mornings and Sunday mornings. We've probably seen each other, we just don't go around with name tags labeled FrommerStop or Daezee (one of my beagles). Will bag up some frangibles and put them in my truck.

    Thanks very much for the samples and the advice on my AR. I just ordered from Brownells an extra-strength wolff hammer spring, a proper length butt stock buffer tube screw, and rubber washer that seats behind the spring. In about two weeks I will be back out there with to see how it fires.

    Below is a frommer stop pistol being fired.
     
    Last edited:

    FrommerStop

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Joined
    Apr 7, 2016
    Messages
    6,897
    Points
    113
    Location
    NWFL
    Top Bottom