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100 and 200 meter metallic silhouette

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  • joraca

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    PRPC is building a dedicated range for shooting 100 and 200 meter metallic silhouette.

    Because of all the disciplines (NRA pistol, cowboy rifle and .22 rifle, and IHMSA pistol) fired on different targets at different distances, the matches will be fired at a single target at each distance, equipped with a sensor and LED light to indicate hits. IHMSA will sanction this approach. NRA has indicated they will consider sanctioning.

    Because the need to reset targets is eliminated, firing through a 40 target set only takes 30 minutes. Shooters will start on chickens when there is an opening, IHMSA style. Targets are T1 steel - -cartridges that damage them will not be permitted to fire.

    Here is a link to the various NRA silhouette disciplines. (Note no 500 meter courses of fire will be offered on this range)

    https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2018...wsletter&utm_medium=insider&utm_campaign=0518

    The IHMSA disciplines are Big bore, Big bore 1/2 scale, Field pistol, Smallbore pistol, Smallbore pistol 1/5 scale.

    Is there any interest (outside of PRPC) in attending these matches?

    What disciplines are of interest?

    What is a good weekend to have them monthly?

    Thanks for any input or questions.

    John
     

    FrommerStop

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    PRPC is building a dedicated range for shooting 100 and 200 meter metallic silhouette.

    Because of all the disciplines (NRA pistol, cowboy rifle and .22 rifle, and IHMSA pistol) fired on different targets at different distances, the matches will be fired at a single target at each distance, equipped with a sensor and LED light to indicate hits. IHMSA will sanction this approach. NRA has indicated they will consider sanctioning.

    Because the need to reset targets is eliminated, firing through a 40 target set only takes 30 minutes. Shooters will start on chickens when there is an opening, IHMSA style. Targets are T1 steel - -cartridges that damage them will not be permitted to fire.

    Here is a link to the various NRA silhouette disciplines. (Note no 500 meter courses of fire will be offered on this range)

    https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2018...wsletter&utm_medium=insider&utm_campaign=0518

    The IHMSA disciplines are Big bore, Big bore 1/2 scale, Field pistol, Smallbore pistol, Smallbore pistol 1/5 scale.

    Is there any interest (outside of PRPC) in attending these matches?

    What disciplines are of interest?

    What is a good weekend to have them monthly?

    Thanks for any input or questions.

    John

    The whole issue is one of communication, especially with other clubs. The biggest adjacent shooting club is Escambia River Gun with sort of about 900 members. I have been a member there for many yrs. I would like to see more communications between the various ranges in NWFL and adjacent AL.
    There was a recent tour of the new in progress silhouette range this Saturday for the Board of Directors of the PRPC. We had a discussion of it at the last board of directors meeting. Due to family concerns I could not attend, but will inspect the progress of the new range myself in about two weeks. I am a recently elected director of the PRPC.
     

    TK5o

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    I would like to see some steel idpa type targets for pistols and maybe rifles , or at least pistol caliber carbines, at the new section of the range
     

    joraca

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    There have been discussions about putting additional facilities in to the south or west of the the new silhouette firing line.

    What would be the distances (closest and most distant) and backstop requirements for what you have in mind? Can you fire your courses in the southerly direction? What are your thoughts on how to keep the steel from being destroyed?

    I've taken this table from another site on how far steel has to be away to be safe and not damaged.

    SHOOTING DISTANCE FOR AR500 STEEL TARGETS:

    .22 Rim Fire, 9mm, .38 Spl, .44 Spl, .45acp - 8 yards
    .357, .40 SW, .44 mag - 12 yards
    Shotgun w/ lead bird shot - 12 yards
    Shotgun w/ std velocity 00 buck - 20 yards
    Shotgun w/ std velocity slug - 50 yards
    .30-30 - 100 yards
    .308, .30-06 - 150 yards
    .223 - 200 yards
    .270 Win – 200 yards
    .22-250 - 300 yards
    300 Win Mag – 400 yards
    45-70 – 100 yards
     

    TK5o

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    I have not seen the new section in person so I cant coment on direction of fire and/or how much distance would be left to work with after the sillouette range is built. Those numbers you posted sound about right. I would also add that if you use a swinging type target for the rifles (like a gong suspended by chain) that helps absorb the energy and those can be shot by all rifles at 100yards and further out. That would extend the life of the targets. I personally have a spinning steel target like the ones found at academy that I have shot multiple times with 5.56 at 35 and 50 yards. It has no damage and I have never had a ricochet with it. If the targets spin, swing, or fall to absorb the energy then ricochet is not an issue. The other stationary man sized sillouette targets should be pistol or pistol caliber carbine only and no closer than 10 yards. If they are mounted at a 10* downward angle then that pretty much handles the ricochets. And for closer shots regulat target stands are just fine
     

    joraca

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    The new range runs ESE down a 6% grade. It is a work in progress. None of the berms are yet completed. It might be possible to accommodate steel swingers or spinners in front of the berms that are being designated for sighters at 25, 40, 50, 75, 100, 150 and 200 meters, subject to club rules, and range rules yet to be written. I asked about shooting south because there may be room for a tall berm directly south a short distance of the new silhouette firing line, but I don't know that that does anything for you that can't be done on the existing plinking range.

    What are the shortcomings of the existing facilities for what you want to do?
     
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    TK5o

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    I know there is a space to hang steel at the 300 yard mark. I would like to see the same at 100 and 200 yards on the 300 yard range. Would also like so see some steel setup on the plinking range. Maybe a plate rack or dueling tree. And couple man sized sillouettes with rules of minimum 10 yard shots and pistol or pistol caliber carbine only.

    I have no complaints about the facility. I think its the best around.
     

    Daezee

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    I will sometimes shoot steel at the plinking range with a rifle, but always make it known that I am using frangible bullets.

    Edited to add: I let people know what I am using so they don't think they can safely shoot at my steel target using "regular" rifle ammo which would damage the steel and possibly cause danger to others with the bullets not being instantly reduced to dust like mine do. I have tested the frangibles by putting a steel plate inside a closed cardboard box and shooting the plate. None of the fragmented bullets exited outside of the cardboard box, although the inside of the box looked "peppered". I shoot and reload .224, .308, and .355 frangible bullets.
     
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    FrommerStop

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    I know there is a space to hang steel at the 300 yard mark. I would like to see the same at 100 and 200 yards on the 300 yard range. Would also like so see some steel setup on the plinking range. Maybe a plate rack or dueling tree. And couple man sized sillouettes with rules of minimum 10 yard shots and pistol or pistol caliber carbine only.

    I have no complaints about the facility. I think its the best around.
    Not trying to be a range NAZI here but:
    From rules for the Kahn Range: 100/200/300 Yard Precision Centerfire Rifle Range
    One should not be shooting steel on this range from my reading of the rules except at the 300 range.
    The wooden scaffold to the right of the last target stand is designated for hanging steel targets that are supplied by the shooter. This is the only location steel targets are allowed.

    Allowed Targets:
    Targets shall be placed in the provided frames.
    Paper targets from the club or home generated paper targets may be used, the NRA 200 and 300 yard targets, which are provided at minimal cost through the Club and fit the target frames, are recommended. These targets produce a good sight picture for rifles with iron sights.
    At no time may anything other than paper targets be used on this range.
    http://www.pensacolarifleandpistolclub.com/rules.html
     
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    TK5o

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    Yes. I know and abide by the rules. Was just stating “improvements” or suggestions to make some changes to allow steel at 100 and 200 on the 300 yard range
     

    FrommerStop

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    Yes. I know and abide by the rules. Was just stating “improvements” or suggestions to make some changes to allow steel at 100 and 200 on the 300 yard range
    I was not party to how and why, but if there are others asking to shoot steel at closer ranges it can certainly be brought up. I personally like shooting steel at closer ranges with AKs and that is not allowed. This is for running combat drills.

    I have had dreams of buying my own clay pit so I can do such drills. Fortunately one do some training with air soft guns, while lacking the recoil, is still good training. For ARs there are .22 LR conversions kits that can be used at closer ranges. Once with a training session up a little past Florala AL I did a course with Don R and out of the 700 rnds or so that I fired, I think about 500 rnds of steel lead core 7.62x39 were fired at an 8 inch plate at 50 yards and closer during some of the drills and do not recall any shrapnel coming our way. The first concern with steel plates is safety and then destruction of the target and frames. One size does not fit all here. Some people will prohibit steel jacketed wolf 5.56 at 100 yards and yet allow hotter copper jacketed bullets loads that will damage the plates. Details and Details. Always hard to make a one size fits all. Most ranges for rifles state 100 yards take it or leave it. The thought is from what I have heard is if the plate is closer it will get pockmarked and this can cause material to rebound back to the firing line.
    I was talking and watching a fellow with a .50 bmg single shot at the ERGC once with a manhole cover at about 110 yards or so. The cover was leaned on the berm with its angle of incidence pointing up. Just earlier to my arrival a 50 cal slug or large piece of something did come back to the firing line. So the steel face should be angled down and not up.
     
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    TK5o

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    Yes definitely a downward angle like I stated above. I know steel targets can be safely shot at our range. Just need the blessings from the board and maybe a few rule amendments or rules added
     

    Realtor

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    Yes definitely a downward angle like I stated above. I know steel targets can be safely shot at our range. Just need the blessings from the board and maybe a few rule amendments or rules added

    also I suspend mine from chains so there a little swing and give in the target, not a stiff solid stationary target?
     

    FrommerStop

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    also I suspend mine from chains so there a little swing and give in the target, not a stiff solid stationary target?

    Many use chains. I have always had concerns that the chain might deflect the bullets upward. No proof of such, just a worry about it.
     

    TK5o

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    So my question is would it be possible to allow steel at 100 and 200 on the 300 yard range? What would it take to take that change? Would the club entertain getting a plate rack or dueling tree to use on the plinking range?
     

    joraca

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    If steel was put on the plinking range, I think it would have to be against the berm (35 yds), because of backsplatter and deflection issues. The targets would have to be AR500. The entire plinking range would have to be limited to calibers firing no more than 2700 fps . . Maybe 2500 fps. No 5.56 ARs, etc. So the new club rules would be don't move the steel. Don't fire cartridges of over 2700 fps on the 35 yd berm. Remove damaged plate from the range immediately. On the shorter berm (15 yds) the additional club rule would be pistol cartridges only. The plates there would be against the berm as well - -I expect AR500 there would do OK unless someone got into them with a rifle. What do you think of that?

    On the 300 yd range, that is simply a matter of asking the board to change the rule. I don't know why it was limited to that distance. Might be the Win Mag target damage issue.
     

    joraca

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    Here is a video of green tip 5.56 (not armor piercing) chewing on some AR500 plate at 50 yards.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wb-ClokH0ks

    Once the plate is dimpled, it is not safe to shoot it with a pistol cartridge at close range. Probably not with a rifle cartridge either for that matter - -you can see stuff coming back.
     
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