DK Firearms

New stand your ground shooting picked up by media

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Gulf Coast States

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • Jeb21

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Joined
    Jul 27, 2014
    Messages
    2,098
    Points
    0
    Location
    Cantonment
    Or that so many of us are unwilling to be victims.....

    He was a victim of a shove. i.e. a simple battery, which is a misdemeanor - no legal right to shoot in response to that. When the gun was presented the BF clearly dropped his hands and turned away. Only then did the man fire his weapon.

    If the BF had continued forward and continued to press the attack, then I believe the shooting becomes justified.


    BTW He does not know the meaning of victim. But he will when he gets his first lawyer's bill.
     
    Last edited:

    Fletch

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Joined
    Dec 10, 2012
    Messages
    1,235
    Points
    38
    Location
    Pensacola
    Better for him to have taken a one-time ass whipping in the parking lot than weekly beatdowns and rape in prison.
     

    Snake-Eyes

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Joined
    Jun 22, 2013
    Messages
    3,416
    Points
    113
    Location
    Florida
    He was a victim of a shove. i.e. a simple battery, which is a misdemeanor - no legal right to shoot in response to that. When the gun was presented the BF clearly dropped his hands and turned away. Only then did the man fire his weapon.

    If the BF had continued forward and continued to press the attack, then I believe the shooting becomes justified.


    BTW He does not know the meaning of victim. But he will when he gets his first lawyer's bill.

    Perhaps it is YOU that doesn't know the meaning of victim.
    ?

    This "simple battery" shove in your eyes could've easily broken a hip, cracked his skull, fractured a wrist/elbow/tailbone... I'm sure as hell it was a surprise and not fun to endure.

    Also, what is your definition of a "BF"? You keep using that term.

    Finally, it's interesting that you think the guy who defended himself from an attack, resulting in the death of another, and is now going to endure the onslaught of legal battles, will only really know what it's like to be victimized "when he gets his first lawyer's bill". Wow. Professional pride?
     

    Fletch

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Joined
    Dec 10, 2012
    Messages
    1,235
    Points
    38
    Location
    Pensacola
    I get what some of the more seasoned and distinguished members are saying about not taking a beating and don't necessarily disagree. That said, it's not like this guy came out and saw an old geezer shaking a cane at his lady. The shooter doesn't look too weak or feeble in social media photos or that small for that matter. 47 years old is hardly over the hill. Roy Jones was still boxing and Tom Brady will likely play in the NFL till 45. This wasn't an obvious disparity of force situation.
     

    Snake-Eyes

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Joined
    Jun 22, 2013
    Messages
    3,416
    Points
    113
    Location
    Florida
    Better for him to have taken a one-time ass whipping in the parking lot than weekly beatdowns and rape in prison.

    ?? I still don't understand this mentality of "just take it".
    Why? Who the hell gives the aggressor the right to demand we "turn the other cheek"? What kind of society demands that the aggressor be allowed to act out?

    The dead guy started a fight because he assumed he could win. He turned out to be wrong. Dead wrong.

    You folks defending him speak like you would take a blindsided linebacker hit, and just curl up in a fetal position "hoping" you survive to see the aggressor get processed through the legal system?

    Here's a scenario: what if Johnny 47-year-old did exactly that. Curled up. Took the beating. And what if someone else who was carrying saw it. And that someone else shot the attacker. Feel any different?

    The victim didn't start the Fight. He started a conversation with someone else. The dead aggressor started the Fight. The victim ended it before needing hospitalization.

    WTF.
     

    Viking1204

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Joined
    Dec 3, 2012
    Messages
    5,192
    Points
    113
    Location
    Fort Walton Beach, FL
    No body should have died in that situation. The weapon should not have been fired. If he is prosecuted the jury will have a hard time accepting that this killing was justified. If he does go to trial he is going to need some kind of expert to explain what stress does to a persons perception and field of vision etc . . .

    We can debate all day about whether it was a good defensive use of a gun but have no way to decide whether it was without hearing what was being said by the individuals involved. The big guy that had just violently shoved the older guy to the ground could have been telling him he was about to beat him to death, we have no idea what was being said. I get knocked on my ass and the guy that knocked me down says I'm going to beat you to death I'm shooting his ass because at that point I'm in fear of my life.
     

    John B.

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Joined
    Sep 27, 2012
    Messages
    3,162
    Points
    97
    Location
    Gulf Breeze
    I get what some of the more seasoned and distinguished members are saying about not taking a beating and don't necessarily disagree. That said, it's not like this guy came out and saw an old geezer shaking a cane at his lady. The shooter doesn't look too weak or feeble in social media photos or that small for that matter. 47 years old is hardly over the hill. Roy Jones was still boxing and Tom Brady will likely play in the NFL till 45. This wasn't an obvious disparity of force situation.
    Agreed... I'll be 30 here soon, and most men I know in their mid to late 40s have what I refer to as "grown man strength" and I damn sure aren't trying to fight em...

    I am curious, and this is hypothetical, but had the boyfriend not pushed him, and simply said what the hell is going on, I wonder what would have happened next?

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
     

    Jeb21

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Joined
    Jul 27, 2014
    Messages
    2,098
    Points
    0
    Location
    Cantonment
    Perhaps it is YOU that doesn't know the meaning of victim.
    ?

    This "simple battery" shove in your eyes could've easily broken a hip, cracked his skull, fractured a wrist/elbow/tailbone... I'm sure as hell it was a surprise and not fun to endure.

    Also, what is your definition of a "BF"? You keep using that term.

    Finally, it's interesting that you think the guy who defended himself from an attack, resulting in the death of another, and is now going to endure the onslaught of legal battles, will only really know what it's like to be victimized "when he gets his first lawyer's bill". Wow. Professional pride?

    But it did not do any of these things. If he had suffered great bodily harm then he would have had a stronger legal defense.

    BF is short for boyfriend. My understanding is that the black male was responding to a verbal argument between the shooter and the black males, girlfriend. Sorry for the confusion.

    As for professional pride, absolutely not. Too many innocent folks are forced to take a plea because they cannot afford the legal bills to defend themselves in criminal court. That is why a good (read not the NRA) self defense insurance policy is an excellent idea.
     

    Jeb21

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Joined
    Jul 27, 2014
    Messages
    2,098
    Points
    0
    Location
    Cantonment
    We can debate all day about whether it was a good defensive use of a gun but have no way to decide whether it was without hearing what was being said by the individuals involved. The big guy that had just violently shoved the older guy to the ground could have been telling him he was about to beat him to death, we have no idea what was being said. I get knocked on my ass and the guy that knocked me down says I'm going to beat you to death I'm shooting his ass because at that point I'm in fear of my life.

    True an understanding of what was being said between the two could change my position on this incident.
     

    Jeb21

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Joined
    Jul 27, 2014
    Messages
    2,098
    Points
    0
    Location
    Cantonment
    ?? I still don't understand this mentality of "just take it".
    Why? Who the hell gives the aggressor the right to demand we "turn the other cheek"? What kind of society demands that the aggressor be allowed to act out?

    The dead guy started a fight because he assumed he could win. He turned out to be wrong. Dead wrong.

    You folks defending him speak like you would take a blindsided linebacker hit, and just curl up in a fetal position "hoping" you survive to see the aggressor get processed through the legal system?

    Here's a scenario: what if Johnny 47-year-old did exactly that. Curled up. Took the beating. And what if someone else who was carrying saw it. And that someone else shot the attacker. Feel any different?

    The victim didn't start the Fight. He started a conversation with someone else. The dead aggressor started the Fight. The victim ended it before needing hospitalization.

    WTF.

    No, I don't think he should have curled up. He drew his weapon and the attacker immediately and obviously stopped and began retreating. Up until this point, I think the gun owner is in the right. The delayed shot as the BF is moving away is the problem.
     

    tros6t

    Marksman
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Joined
    Oct 31, 2012
    Messages
    849
    Points
    93
    He was a victim of a shove. i.e. a simple battery, which is a misdemeanor - no legal right to shoot in response to that. When the gun was presented the BF clearly dropped his hands and turned away. Only then did the man fire his weapon.

    If the BF had continued forward and continued to press the attack, then I believe the shooting becomes justified.


    BTW He does not know the meaning of victim. But he will when he gets his first lawyer's bill.

    We all have a right to our opinions, however, I would not advise charging up to someone in such an agressive manner and pushing them in any manner, especially in this violent manner, unless you have your life insurance up to date!
     

    tros6t

    Marksman
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Joined
    Oct 31, 2012
    Messages
    849
    Points
    93
    I get what some of the more seasoned and distinguished members are saying about not taking a beating and don't necessarily disagree. That said, it's not like this guy came out and saw an old geezer shaking a cane at his lady. The shooter doesn't look too weak or feeble in social media photos or that small for that matter. 47 years old is hardly over the hill. Roy Jones was still boxing and Tom Brady will likely play in the NFL till 45. This wasn't an obvious disparity of force situation.

    We must have seen a different video?
     

    tros6t

    Marksman
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Joined
    Oct 31, 2012
    Messages
    849
    Points
    93
    Anyone who will allow someone to attack them in a violent manner while carrying a firearm is unwise. If you don't mind a whipping or you are able to give a good one back, then leave your firearm home. That way you don't loose it in the fight. When I was 20, 30 and maybe early 40's, I probably could hold my own with many (Probably not this guy but many). But now that I'm pushing 60 and have health issues. As I said already, I paid Glock, the State of Florida and Carry Guard to protect me. But let it be known, that I don't start anything with people. There's way too much hassle even if you are justified. And with the left wing loon media, no one is ever justified. Liberals want everyone to be a victim because it justifies them growing the govt to "protect" us. They do not like people who are willing to try an fend for themselves. Liberalism is a mental disease to the sheep and an evil plot to those pushing it from above.
     

    Mic

    Expert
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Joined
    Oct 17, 2013
    Messages
    203
    Points
    18
    Location
    Cantonment, Florida
    You mean the violent agressor could have, should have walked away, right?

    And do you mean the retaliation was a violent attack for being an old annoying rule enforcer?

    Yup, I said walk away. The violent aggressor could have walked right to the back of a police car. Right before a Judge, and right into jail. Taking someone's life is the most serious thing we may ever be called to do. I am not saying that I wouldn't, if pressed, but I have a great respect for the sanctity of life. What I saw was not worth taking a life over. And please understand, we are all arm-chair qb-ing this thing. None of us were there, none of us know either man, and none of us know what was said. Everyone is just giving their own opinion about it.
     

    TK5o

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    13   0   0
    Joined
    Feb 20, 2013
    Messages
    2,560
    Points
    113
    Location
    Pensacola
    But it did not do any of these things. If he had suffered great bodily harm then he would have had a stronger legal defense.

    BF is short for boyfriend. My understanding is that the black male was responding to a verbal argument between the shooter and the black males, girlfriend. Sorry for the confusion.

    As for professional pride, absolutely not. Too many innocent folks are forced to take a plea because they cannot afford the legal bills to defend themselves in criminal court. That is why a good (read not the NRA) self defense insurance policy is an excellent idea.
    Its not the victim’s fault the lawyer’s charge so much. So tell me why the bill has to be so high. Aside from hiring expert witnesses and making copies of paperwork. There is no actual fee for exercising your right to a jury trial. So again. Why charge so much
     

    fl57caveman

    eclectic atavist
    GCGF Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    5   0   0
    Joined
    Jan 23, 2015
    Messages
    12,176
    Points
    113
    Location
    n.w. florida
    Different way to say it is: many of us are human enough not to violently attack another more vulnerable human with bodily harm over a perceived offense.

    if either of them had the proper morals and values, that the civilized world should have, one would be alive, the other would not have shot...

    if the BF had not pushed , he would be above ground now, end of story
    in many ways, things today are like they were 150 yrs ago...insults could get you shot..so even bad guys were polite...
     

    fl57caveman

    eclectic atavist
    GCGF Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    5   0   0
    Joined
    Jan 23, 2015
    Messages
    12,176
    Points
    113
    Location
    n.w. florida
    It looked to me like he was about to start kicking him after pulling up his pants - that is until the guy begins to draw... Maybe the next tough guy will think twice before blindly assaulting someone.

    But then, arguing with a thugette because she feels entitled to the empty blue parking spot simply isn’t worth it in my minds. It wasn’t going to change anything.

    As much as I’d like to give vehicles a ticket when they shouldn’t be parking there or using grandmas placard when she isn’t in the car - I’m not going to go looking to confront people doing so as this guy had a history of doing...

    No winners here.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    my thought also, he hitched his pants up, and in a forward deliberate pace, until the guy reached to the waist, then he backed up..


    verbal needs to be taken into account, we do not know what was being said
     

    Red

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Joined
    May 22, 2016
    Messages
    2,270
    Points
    0
    Location
    Crestview
    I agree with all those that say they wouldn't just take an ass kicking. If for whatever reason I am involved in a physical altercation and losing then yeah I would probably fear for my life and those around me if my attacker got my weapon.

    I think the shooter was totally justified in drawing on the guy after being shoved however IMO I did not see further intent from the dead guy to cause more harm. Again just going by my perspective. Seem like the guy just shoved the shooter out of the way. Not the right thing to do of course but then again neither is yelling at some lady about a parking space while carrying a firearm.

    I think the shooter was justified in drawing on the guy, but IMO he was too quick on the trigger. I think had he given it just a split second longer the worst that would have happened would have been some bruises and hurt egos.

    I certainly am not one to turn the other cheek, my beloved endless war has exposed me to more than enough violence, but also taught me how precious it is and how finite it is. Even if ruled a good shooting, wasting a guy because he shoved you after you started a verbal altercation with a female over a parking space...... I mean come on man.

    I get it we all see people everyday acting like idiots. Given enough back and forth insults I could probably get anyone to shove me or punch me to the point where "I fear for my life" which would then justify deadly force but IMO that is just not necessary over something as silly as a parking space.

    I think the shooter was wrong for starting stuff over a parking space while carrying, I think the guy was wrong for shoving a weaker guy, I think the shooter was right in drawing his pistol at that point, but I think he was too fast to shoot. That's just what I seen on the video one guy's opinion.
     

    flyandscuba

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Joined
    Sep 26, 2012
    Messages
    3,112
    Points
    38
    Location
    Anchorage, AK / Milton, FL
    I’m of the age where if someone lays hands on me with violent intent - I’m drawing. If I’m drawing - the trigger will most likely be pulled in short order.

    “Unarmed assailant” is BS as far as I’m concerned. Too many things can happen (and do) without a weapon being used. One of Hillary’s “super predators” decides to engage physically - this old man will use a weapon (firearm or knife) to end it and go home at the end of the day.

    I’d rather end up like Officer Darren Wilson or George Zimmerman - than like Reginald Denny...


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

    FLT

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Joined
    May 15, 2017
    Messages
    3,847
    Points
    113
    Location
    Havana
    Red, with all due respect, print this out and read it again when you are an old man. I’m sure at the present time you could hold your own with most any man. But age changes ones abilities and mind set. The will to survive is a strong motivator even in old men.
     
    Top Bottom