Opinions on best surplus rifle?

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  • Red

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    Hi all,
    Wondering if anyone wants to chat about what they think the best surplus rifle is. Personal experiences or stories more than welcome.
    I have read about the British using Enfields taking down large game in Africa not to mention having a silky bolt and 10 round capacity. Not sure on ballistics but if it could take down an elephant its gotta be doing something right.

    The Russians Mosin Nagant rifles are pretty awesome considering some do not even need an FFL anymore they are so old. That caliber is a heavy hitter too. Only issue I have had personally is a trigger bar broke. Weird. Pretty straight shooting rifle overall and they are still using the round for the PKM MG. Pretty cool.

    Italian Carcano? Not familiar in the least with these rifles. Always meant to get one when they were 60 bucks and never did.

    Finnish Mosin M39. The Cadillac of the Mosin Nagant? Sights are certainly better, barrels a bit shorter and once action is shimmed seems to make a tack driver out of a 100yr old rifle.

    Swiss K31, never messed with one but read that they are amazing shooters and very accurate.

    U.S. 1903, IMO a very accurate and powerful rifle. A3 sights are user friendly but the original ladder ones are great once the system is learned. Potent round

    Eddystone? Hear these are pretty cool too and built like tanks. Again very potent round for its day and even today

    Kar98, sweet sweet surplus heaven. What else can be said, sets the standard for all other bolt action war rifles.

    Arisaka, Read somewhere that these were actually built tougher than the k98. 6.5 was a bit underpowered but flat shooting and low signature, 7.7 upped the ballistics but so did the signature. Read the GIs would have a hard time targeting the Type 38 gunners due to low sig and smoke and an easier time with the Type 99 gunners.

    Kinda did the round the horn thing I guess. Please feel free to input your thoughts and experiences. There are only so many articles I can read online from tacticool guys. Would love to hear some first hand thoughts.
     

    sportsbud

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    SWISS K31. Fantastic rifles shoot awesome and if built new would cost a lot more than they sell for. Get one while you can.
     

    Red

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    SWISS K31. Fantastic rifles shoot awesome and if built new would cost a lot more than they sell for. Get one while you can.

    Yep I kick myself for not getting one when they flooded the surplus market.
     

    FrommerStop

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    When I was much younger and hunting was the goal the kind of surplus rifles I wanted were the 1903 spingfield followed by the 1917 Enfield.because they were very well made rifles and were in 30-06 and there was a lot of knowledge for accessories and how to sportarize them. Now days we leave them as they left the armory and shoot them as is. Until recently with the cheapo ammo the mosins were the best buy and of course the Finish were best of them. Anything made in Switzerland is damn good and they will shoot for sure.
    Attached video shows
    K31 Swiss vs Milk Jug at 1000 Yards OPEN SIGHTS LRSU Milk Jug Challenge Ernest Jimenez
    Fellow hits milk jug at 1000 yard with open sights. For sure a little luck and very, very much skill and knowledge of that particular rifle. That man knows the art of the rifle.


    But surplus rifles are for fun in my opinion. The 7.62x54R had gone up in price for sure, but I have a bit of ammo that I purchased at the old prices. Eventually if i have the time I will glass bed the action and barrel of my russian made 91/30 and do some handloading. This is all for fun. I also have mausers and will play with them. One I will counter bore its barrel and see if that made in 1917 actioned gun can be gotten to shoot. I have a like new serbian mauser and will play with that. 8mmx57 is no longer cheap, but i picked up a lot 30-06 commercial once fired in a give away at the PRPC range by a former president that is perfect for making 8x57 cases.
    I even have a rolling block in .43 rem and a replacement carbine barrel for the eroded musket length barrel! So many projects and so few years left to complete them. There are so many interesting things to do. Still have SKSs I want to accurize and more.

    Unfortunately, the lords and gods of the world only give mortal men a limited number of years, one best make the most efficient use of them.
     

    Red

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    I could not have said it better myself. So much to learn and so many projects and so little money and time. I really want to take an AK building class. Seems parts kits are starting to drop again so it would be cool to have that knowledge. I have to retire first though. Almost there!!!
     

    Fear21

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    My favorite surplus rifle of all time is the K98k. Nothing quite like shooting one - there's just something about the 8mm recoil and the sound of that particular bolt cycling as you run the action. It's just awesome. Bonus points if it's still got all the Waffenamts intact - I'm a sucker for "correctness," and even though it represents a darker time in our history, I hate seeing the markings peened out.

    Also a big fan of the Swedish Mausers, specifically the M38. 6.5x55 is an excellent cartridge. Long Branch and Savage Enfields are of particular interest to me as well; .303 is another great round.

    You left out one of the greatest surplus guns of them all... the Garand. :)
     

    sportsbud

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    Now that I am at a computer I can actually type... So I do believe that the Swiss K31 is the best surplus rifle to own, its just a wonderful piece of steel and wood, you own it to admire its functional beauty.

    Right behind that is a M1 Garand (honorable mention the M1 Carbine) simply because it is the best battle rifle in it's time it is what made the difference in firefights in WW2, while Germans or Japanese soldiers were working the bolt on most of their weapons Americans were just squeezing the trigger plus have a few more rounds in the magazine is always nice.

    After that having an Enfield as it is the most functional BOLT action battle rifle ever. When designers around the turn of the 20th century were designing their rifles they designed them for long range engagements so speed of cycling the action was secondary. In reality the more rounds you put down range the better and it is very easy to do that with the rear-locking Enfield. 10 rounds and a fast slick action is always fun to shoot, I personaly love the No5MK1 (Jungle carbine) as it barks loud and wallops you. SOG has an unknown assortment of bulk 303 surplus for 1k round for about $320 shipped.

    Then comes the Mausers, (this includes the American Mauser the 1903), great rifles to own and very accurate but damn that action is clunky requiring a lot of wrist movement to work and slow. But its a rock solid action but just damn slow... (Get the turkish ones to shoot with they are cheap and good shooters also the turked GEW 88's are neat as well)

    The Mosins, man they are a lot of fun, new production ammo makes it affordable to shoot still and prefer the carbines as I have a M44 and M91/59. These require copious amounts of vodka when cleaning...

    Then there is the Arisakas I say get one now while they are cheap!!! You can find them for around $200 in great shape I just got a 6th series (factory starts with an N lol) with a lightly scratched MUM for $175! Ammo is not cheap but the 7.7 ones can have a chamber insert for 7.62x39 is so desired.

    I know too little about caracano's to make a call on their quality....
     
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    fl57caveman

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    Well, I reckon my name says it all about which way I lean.

    I have an old Yugo mauser in 8mm, has been sporterized, rough looking, no safe queen for sure, barrel is worn out, but has the smoothest, fastest action I have seen, like butter...

    still hits good @ 100 yards.

    Paul Mauser made the strongest action in the world imo..
     

    spongemonkey

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    I dont consider it the best but I like my Chinese T53 Mosin. Also like my Russian SKS and Chinese SKS. I had a Swiss K31 at one time but sold/traded it off.
     

    MauserLarry

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    I have an old Yugo mauser in 8mm, has been sporterized, rough looking, no safe queen for sure, barrel is worn out, but has the smoothest, fastest action I have seen, like butter...

    still hits good @ 100 yards.

    Paul Mauser made the strongest action in the world imo..

    I knew you were a man of class!!!
     

    FrommerStop

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    I have an old Yugo mauser in 8mm, has been sporterized, rough looking, no safe queen for sure, barrel is worn out, but has the smoothest, fastest action I have seen, like butter...

    still hits good @ 100 yards.

    Paul Mauser made the strongest action in the world imo..
    Some claim the arisaka rifle was the strongest. The Arisaka is a mauser variant designed by I guess Arisaka who afterwards went from colonel to lieutenant general.
    The Arisaka rifle was designed by Colonel Arisaka Nariakira (有坂 成章; 1852–1915), who was later promoted to lieutenant general and also received the title of baron from Emperor Meiji, in 1907. Over the course of various wars several productions runs and variants were made, including the transition from the 6.5mm Type 38 cartridge to the larger 7.7mm Type 99, and the introduction of a paratrooper rifle that could be disassembled into two major parts for airborne operations. Tests on samples of Arisaka rifles conducted after the war showed that their bolts and receivers were constructed of carbon steel "similar to SAE steel grade No. 1085 with a carbon content of 0.80% to 0.90%, and a manganese content of 0.60% to 0.90%."[1] During destructive tests, the Arisakas were shown to be stronger than the M1903 Springfield, Lee–Enfield, and Mauser rifles.[2] The Arisaka's were also one of the only guns of the era to use polygonal rifling in its barrels, rather than the more traditional lands and grooves.
     

    wildrider666

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    I collected about a dozen old mil long guns in the past. I think the main factors that draw people to them are their history/country of origin, mechanical uniqueness of the action/firearm. Swiss 98/11 & K31 straight pull #1. Though underpowered and generally considered weak: the Mil Krag-Jorgensen are nice. Federal M14SA was awesome! L1A1 (metric pattern) was a good one. I like the Johnson M1941 too but never in my price range. 7.35 Carcano was junk! I've shot three of them and can't see how Oswald/JFK shots were accomplished! Mausers are tough to beat and probably the Gold Standard, even late war production and Exports. Clones engineered and Mfg outside Germany are technically not Mousers. The M1903 Springfield is technically rooted in the Mauser!

    The Best: The last SKS (spiker) I bought was $119 but even at todays prices its still a solid, fun rifle with economical and abundant ammo and you can do the larger mag swap if you want it.

    Technically not mil surplus but semiautomatic AKs and ARs hold the lions share of popularity in place of their restricted origional configuration counterparts.
     

    sportsbud

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    I collected about a dozen old mil long guns in the past. I think the main factors that draw people to them are their history/country of origin, mechanical uniqueness of the action/firearm. Swiss 98/11 & K31 straight pull #1. Though underpowered and generally considered weak: the Mil Krag-Jorgensen are nice. Federal M14SA was awesome! L1A1 (metric pattern) was a good one. I like the Johnson M1941 too but never in my price range. 7.35 Carcano was junk! I've shot three of them and can't see how Oswald/JFK shots were accomplished! Mausers are tough to beat and probably the Gold Standard, even late war production and Exports. Clones engineered and Mfg outside Germany are technically not Mousers. The M1903 Springfield is technically rooted in the Mauser!

    The Best: The last SKS (spiker) I bought was $119 but even at todays prices its still a solid, fun rifle with economical and abundant ammo and you can do the larger mag swap if you want it.

    Technically not mil surplus but semiautomatic AKs and ARs hold the lions share of popularity in place of their restricted origional configuration counterparts.

    Friend has a Caracano carbine in 6.5 Caracano that he says kicks like a mule...
     

    FrommerStop

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    I collected about a dozen old mil long guns in the past. I think the main factors that draw people to them are their history/country of origin, mechanical uniqueness of the action/firearm. Swiss 98/11 & K31 straight pull #1. Though underpowered and generally considered weak: the Mil Krag-Jorgensen are nice. Federal M14SA was awesome! L1A1 (metric pattern) was a good one. I like the Johnson M1941 too but never in my price range. 7.35 Carcano was junk! I've shot three of them and can't see how Oswald/JFK shots were accomplished! Mausers are tough to beat and probably the Gold Standard, even late war production and Exports. Clones engineered and Mfg outside Germany are technically not Mousers. The M1903 Springfield is technically rooted in the Mauser!

    The Best: The last SKS (spiker) I bought was $119 but even at todays prices its still a solid, fun rifle with economical and abundant ammo and you can do the larger mag swap if you want it.

    Technically not mil surplus but semiautomatic AKs and ARs hold the lions share of popularity in place of their restricted origional configuration counterparts.

    Friend has a Caracano carbine in 6.5 Caracano that he says kicks like a mule...

    I have handled and fired a couple of the 6.5 Carcano carbines. It kicks, but not like a mule. They were simplified military rifles, but hardly junk. The big problem was the 6.5 ammo that was deteriorated.
     

    MarkS

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    Had a 6.5 Carcano carbine and it wasn’t accurate at all. I could hit the side of a barn as long as I was standing close enough.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

    FrommerStop

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    Had a 6.5 Carcano carbine and it wasn’t accurate at all. I could hit the side of a barn as long as I was standing close enough.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    What shape was the barrel in. I have a 98 made german mauser that also can not hit the side of a barn. After years of hard usage the barrels and stocks get wore out and the guns lose their accuracy. A carcano is not up to a Swiss made gun, but new they should have been fine. The italians are said to have used a gain twist in some of their rifles which is unusual. If you shorten the barrel of a gain twist rifled barrel the result could be poorly stabilized bullets.
    The best Gain Twist example I know is the 6.5 x 52mm Carcano.
    The Carcano has a Throat Twist of 1:19" which gradually increases rate to 1:8" at the Muzzle.
    I'd like to experiment with Gain Twist.

    Normal Carcano military ammo is 150gr with 2,400 fps Muzzle velocity.

    I've never seen a recovered Carcano bullet, but I imagine the rifling pattern would simply look like a (completely) normal 1:8" Twist pattern. The reason behind Gain Twist is lowered pressure and temperature in the throat area which translates to longer barrel life. Normal, high bore temps should guarantee that a copper jacket continues to-conform-to Local Twist (value) all the way down the bore to the Muzzle.

    As best I can tell, the Mod 91 Carcano was built from 1891 thru 1943 with a rear sight normally set to 300 meters and an adjustment range of 600 to 1500 meters. The pre-1939 models have better materials, actions and barrels. The Carcano is (supposedly) quite accurate but, recent Yugoslavian 6.5x52mm (and Norma) ammo is of poor quality, mostly due to undersized bullets (averages 0.2615" diameter) while, Italian military ammo averages 0.2685". https://www.shootersforum.com/ex-military-rifles-cartridges/16334-carcano-6-5-x-52mm-gain-twist.html
     

    MarkS

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    My Carcano had an almost smooth bore. My bnl had a 1915 8mm Mauser that was one of the most accurate rifles I’ve ever shot. He had the chamber extended to accept 30-06 brass converting it in to an 8mm-06 as he had access to free 30/06 brass.


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    indy1919a4

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    The Best Surplus Rifle in the World is the Enfauser..

    Remanufactured in Turkey, the Turks took the very slick Enfield action and married it to the wonderful 8mm Mauser round and barrel and gave the world one of the Greatest rifles of all time..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VQjo3MhgVw
     
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