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Ammo problems!

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  • Telum Pisces

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    Ok, cycling some ppu 45-70 for the very first time though the new lever gun and this is what I get. What kind of crap is this? Should I take it back and demand a refund. Local store! Or just chalk it up to not knowing that ppu is not crimped right?

    Don't feel safe running this through any lever gun period!!!!

    730be96b21fd7c12a67797d74e67de94.jpg


    Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk
     

    Telum Pisces

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    Is this from recoil? I have had problems with PPU brass before, specifically crappy primer pockets. I try to avoid the stuff myself.

    Nope, simple cycling the rounds. No shooting involved!!!!! I can literally shove the bullets down into the brass with the pressure I can exert from my own hands! Not shooting this garbage.Going to pull them and use the brass and apply proper crimp I suppose! Maybe reused the bullets. But this is just crap for such expensive rounds!
     

    SAWMAN

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    Is the shell lifter coming all the way up as to properly align the round with the mouth of the chamber ??
    Does the lead nose have slight moon shaped indentations in it ?? ---- SAWMAN
     

    Telum Pisces

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    Is the shell lifter coming all the way up as to properly align the round with the mouth of the chamber ??
    Does the lead nose have slight moon shaped indentations in it ?? ---- SAWMAN

    Rounds look as though they are going perfect into the chamber. Like I said, I can push these rounds into the casing with my fingers! Not a happy camper! Simple operation through the loading tube seems to be the problem. Loading one at a time into the chamber and it's loading it perfectly. I guess I'll shoot this one at a time and call it quits on any of this cheap crap!
     
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    SAWMAN

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    That has gotta be their own bullet also. The nose is not like anything that I have ever seen.
    I heavy crimp all my 45-70,45-90Express,and the other straight wall big bore chamberings that I shoot. This . . . even in my single shot guns and revo's.
    Suggest you load this crap ammo directly into the chamber and shoot it just for the brass. ---- SAWMAN
     

    Jester896

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    best way to pull bullets is to fire them :) Run them through your dies and give them a crimp...they don't look crimped to me.
     

    wildrider666

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    That sucks! I looked briefly for Recalls (only some Grendel ctg) and ATF restriction on future Thunder Line projectiles imports and current stocks pulled from all locations. No issues or problems popped up with the PPU 45-70..

    Obviously you know the pressure hazard it creates on top of function issues. Sawman is correct on cycling impacts to bullet tip as a primary, followed by recoil bullet creep. Since you can duplicate the extreme bullet seating without excessive hand pressure: thats a cartridge problem regardless of other issues. One box or several? I'd look at the remaining uncycled rounds for long and shorts, check against specs.

    You should get what you paid for. Take them back but know a lot of business say ammo sales are final and don't refund. I think if you have the seller "press one" they will agree on the defect. The MFG NEEDS TO BE CONTACTED! Such things impact entire Lots of ammo not just a box or two. Your issues may be wide spread problems. It would ba a good thing to list your cartridge specifics and Lot number(s) as a heads up to Members and folks on the Web. It would be best to just set that ammo aside with a Note/reminder till the MFG responds.

    Alternatives if MFG is unresponsive:
    If you reload: Pull apart a round. Measure powder wgt for reassemble reference. Does bullet have crimping grove? Sounds like you have a press and dies. If the batch is that loose: you could give each round a smack in a bullet puller to extend AOL then re-seat and crimp properly. It would be less tedious then full rebuild of each round. Test "new crimp" holding power compared to old. Case wall tension on bullets is also a factor. If the reseat/recrimp doesn't work adequately, you would need to do a full resize and rebell the mouth. IMHO.

    If you don't reload: You could single direct chamber feed each non compressed cartridge to burn them up. Find a better brand next time.
     

    Jester896

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    after reading wildrider666's post I hope I didn't give the impression that you should fire that case with the pushed in bullet.

    if it doesn't have the crescent that SAWMAN spoke of it is probably not a feeding issue. I would use an inertia puller to bump them back out of the case. You may be able to bump them out and check those 2 to see if there is a cannelure. Looking at the pictures and you saying you can push it in with your finger leads me to believe they are not crimped from the mfg. Yes, I would also report lot #s to the mfg.

    You can also measure the OAL and make sure they are in spec. If they are back your seater stem out and use only the crimp portion of your die and crimp them and don't crimp them so hard that you pooch out the case. After you have backed the stem out run the round up in the die and then run the die down on the case until you make contact with the case.. Pull the round down and turn your die another 1/8th turn. Run the round back in to get a good crimp and then measure the case to see how much crimp you have.
     
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    SAWMAN

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    With a properly crimped into the/a cannelure round,if not a compressed powder charge,you should not be able to press the bullet into the case with your thumb. Even if you press extremely hard.
    A bullet can be crimped fairly effectively if it does not have a cannelure to crimp into. You just need to adjust your die very carefully,slowly,a little at a time.
    This is why I love to shoot bullets that are hardcast out of a single shot. You can crimp directly into a lube groove.
    If you do not reload the 300gr Hornady HP or the 325gr Flex Tip are your choices. Remington still makes a 400gr lead nose load also. Most everything is overpowered for Fla hunting.
    Some years ago I killed a 300lb gnarly old boar in Eglin. I was using my Marlin 1895 (16") shooting a 405gr WFNGC (hardcast). At 40yds the bullet penetrated 3 inches of shield,broke BOTH shoulders,exited thru 3 more inches of shield,passed thru a 4" sweetgum tree . . . AND KEPT GOING. ---- SAWMAN
     
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    I bet the sweet gum tree tasted better than the pig.

    If I had the ammo in question, and was set up for reloading, I'd pull the bullets and start over, using the powder for fertilizer.
     
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    Telum Pisces

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    I bet the sweet gum tree tasted better than the pig.

    If I had the ammo in question, and was set up for reloading, I'd pull the bullets and start over, using the powder for fertilizer.

    That's the plan! I bought this one box literally because it was the only box in the Crestview area after I got the gun home. I can't stand not having at least some ammo for any gun I have. I plan to reload for this round and these rounds I have already considered JUNK! I might throw them in one at a time in the chamber. I don't see the harm in that. At least then I'll size the brass to my gun! This is my only 45-70.

    Just sucks since even this cheap crap is so dang expensive!
     
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    Telum Pisces

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    Here is the box in question!
     

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    SAWMAN

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    The 45-70 Govt is just one of the chamberings that I consider is for reloaders only. Loaded down,a 9 year old girl can shoot it at extended range sessions.
    There are three basic levels of pressure loads for a 45-70. #1 ---> Trapdoor. #2 ---> New model lever guns. #3 ---> Ruger #1,Browning,and other modern falling blocks. I also consider the NEF Handi Rifles in this group also since the action is as strong (if not stronger) than a modern falling block.
    I have loaded my Ruger #1 45-70 and 45-90Express up to "shread your brass" levels with no harm to the guns.
    The 45-70 is super versatile. ---- SAWMAN
     

    Big Red

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    Telum Pisces;I saw a similar problem back in the late 80’s when the .357 Maximum came out. My friend Dave who always had to have the “latest & greatest” bought a couple of boxes for his new gun at a gun show. Dave’s solution was to set up his crimper die & re-crimp the rounds. It seemed to work with no problems said:
    Ok, cycling some ppu 45
     
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