Good advice, thanks

Not sure how often the “wrong house” situation happens with LEO. I have done some work in health care settings. You have all heard the horror stories of surgeries on the wrong arm, leg, etc. They have created very strict protocols now to prevent those. Down to writing on the leg your are going to be cut on while you still awake so you can agree. If the data is significant maybe such a system goes in to place for addresses for warrants. Certainly not enough time in active shooter or other similar situations. Just a thought.

The bad guys get the wrong house sometimes too. Almost 20 years ago two guys banged on the door of my friends house looking for some drug money. Even after they were told multiple times the person they wanted didn’t live there. His wife was on the phone with 911 when they kicked in the door. My friend shot him as he came through the door with a bat. Fortunately his wife was narrating the entire event with 911. The police showed up before his buddy got out of the neighborhood.

TK5o said:

Based on that. During a intense or “hot” situation. Listen carefully and follow all orders given by the police. You may end up in cuffs for a brief period but it will resolve itself and everybody gets to go or stay home as the case may be. Simple easy advice.

I remember stories of when people respected the police officer. If not the person themself certainly the position held. And if something wrong did happen thats what the court system is for.. Too many people have lack of respect for the position and try to bucknthe system at the wrong time. Police have a job to do and holding court on the street is not one of them. Thats what the lawyers and judges are for

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OK, somebody is breaking down your door @ 0215 and you don't know who it is, then your dog gets shot. So you wait till they come in and nicely cuff you. Doesn't matter who gave them the info, an innocent person was shot and you seem to think this was an OK mistake. You have a real serious credibility problem.

if my door breaks down suddenly @ 0215 in the am, without my dogs alerting me, somebody is getting shot.


multiple times..


if it is a BG(s), and I do not kill him with the first shot(s) , he will be DOA by the time the LEO arrives...

if it is LE, then they have the wrong address, and may God help them, and me.. there have been instances before, of stolen, or fake uniforms before, and if I am not fully awake, I do not want to think of that...that is truly a rare circumstance..



what ever happened to the old days?, they knocked on the door, id'ed themselves, and said they have a search warrant...then you turn on the light, id them, and let them in, all legal and nice...


this bit of sneaking up, using a hammer-sledge to breach the door, all while yelling in 5 different voices, is asking for trouble.esp if dressed all in black

I’ll catch hell for this but thats okay. Likely be labeled(again) as anti cop or a libtard, but that’s okay also. I have personal friends who work for city, county and state law enforcement. I know what it’s like to be in time sensitive and adrenaline fueled situations, and too have someone come after the fact and second guess it. But, that doesn’t change the fact that I disagree with no knock warrants, night warrants, and I’m not excited about hard knocks.

TK5o said:

The first article you listed does not apply. Even though the police were at the wrong house, law enforcemnent told him to drop the gun which he REFUSED to do as the article states. If he would have complied with that simple order then the situation would have resolved itself. I can almost guarantee they told him Multiple times to drop the gun and he refused

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TK5o This isn’t directed specifically at you, most of this is rhetorical(but feel free to answer if you’d like). I don’t know the answers, honesty when it comes too wrong address(which has happened to me before) I just hope to god it’s during daylight and doesn’t include “shots fired” or ”firearm” in the call.

Because following commands is all great except if someone’s banging on my door at 130 claiming to be the police, guess what: I’m not a felon, i don’t commit felonies, and both my parents and a close friend of mine had similar situations where once the proclaimed”I’m calling 911” ole knocker beat feet.
Except, if it’s actual Leo they won’t wait that long, they announce, count to 5 and then kick it in. And that’s a hard knock, god forbid it’s a no knock at 0dark30 then my law abiding ass just has peeps in all black(or the commercially fashionable multi cam) bursting through a door we don’t use, probably firing at my dog as she does her job.

But let’s say I do call it in and ask, if they have the wrong address and for some reason are being patient, will 911 dispatch be able to tell me their legit? Because as you said, they already gave the wrong info to the officers(or the officers made a mistake), so “no, there’s no calls to that address”.
So then what? Hope it’s legit, and I’m not the next Billings murder? And if it is legit, just accept that I’m gonna get cuffed in front of my family, the likely ptsd it’ll instil in my 6 year old watching people raid our house at midnight, and again this is hoping the don’t blow away the dog(and if they do, hoping the officers outside or in the next room don’t think it’s me firing at them through the door).

RussSurfs said:

The bad guys get the wrong house sometimes too. Almost 20 years ago two guys banged on the door of my friends house looking for some drug money. Even after they were told multiple times the person they wanted didn’t live there. His wife was on the phone with 911 when they kicked in the door. My friend shot him as he came through the door with a bat. Fortunately his wife was narrating the entire event with 911. The police showed up before his buddy got out of the neighborhood.

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Good thing the dealers didn’t go with the “police, open up” tactic, amaright?!?

MauserLarry said:

"Not 100% the fault of the police." How the hell do you figure it's not 100% the fault of the police? There were at the wrong house by your own admission. I have always supported the police but any police raid on the wrong house should be immediate termination of all concerned, regardless of whether any violence occurred or not.

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Idk man, I guess I’d have too see How common it is. I happen to know escambia county is pretty understaffed and I don’t think they can afford loosing all involved in a search warrant executed at the wrong address. I know it’s happened before in Escambia.


All this is too say that the constitution of our country puts the rights and freedoms on the citizen, and the burden of proof and restrictions on the state(government) and its agents(like you know, law enforcement.)
I kinda can’t believe that a group of freedom loving, god fearing, patriotic Americans would argue for anything else.
I’ll put it this way: growing up in the 80’s, I was taught being at the mercy of armed and uniformed people was something the communists and fashists did, not us free Americans.

Caveman and Larry beat me too it

Well. I was going off the articles posted by the op. The articles leave alit to be interpretted and they dont mention “breaking down” doors or what time of night it was. It does say they “burst through the door”. But can you not have a group of people “burst through an open door”? Only thing we know for sure is wrong house and people were shot. I agree the departments owe somebody something, but its really hard to second guess the officer on scene having not been there and not knowing what info he had or didnt have. I fully agree with self defense and protecting your family and home. The op’s concern was what to do when confronted with officers during the night. Sometimes bad things happen in tense situations and I like you have had this thought of what if they have the wrong house. I know its happened here in escambia and hope it doesnt happen to me.

Yeah man I definitely cheated, I drew of a number of articles, stories and experience outside of jebs’ Original post.

fl57caveman said:

if my door breaks down suddenly @ 0215 in the am, without my dogs alerting me, somebody is getting shot.


multiple times..


if it is a BG(s), and I do not kill him with the first shot(s) , he will be DOA by the time the LEO arrives...

if it is LE, then they have the wrong address, and may God help them, and me.. there have been instances before, of stolen, or fake uniforms before, and if I am not fully awake, I do not want to think of that...that is truly a rare circumstance..



what ever happened to the old days?, they knocked on the door, id'ed themselves, and said they have a search warrant...then you turn on the light, id them, and let them in, all legal and nice...


this bit of sneaking up, using a hammer-sledge to breach the door, all while yelling in 5 different voices, is asking for trouble.esp if dressed all in black

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This scenario is really the hardest for all involved. Lot of noise and confusion, the police moving quickly to prevent the bad guys from destroying evidence, fleeing or arming themselves, and the innocent homeowner facing multiple intruders who are not acting like cops. I think Russ is correct, if the LEO is executing a no knock warrant then they must triple check everything to make sure the correct house gets raided.
If it comes to shooting, it is a no win scenario for the homeowner, he will be outgunned, out numbered and his targets will be well armored and trained. The homeowner is going to die, but even if he or she somehow prevails the homeowner will be tried for murder (multiple murders) and will have to live with the killings.

MAXman said:

Yeah man I definitely cheated, I drew of a number of articles, stories and experience outside of jebs’ Original post.

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Cheater Seriously, the articles were intended as examples and were not intended to limit the discussion.

I will say as I browsed the internet I found a bunch of wrong address shootings in GA.

Jeb21 said:

Cheater Seriously, the articles were intended as examples and were not intended to limit the discussion.

I will say as I browsed the internet I found a bunch of wrong address shootings in GA.

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wonder how many of those were due to 911 errors, and search warrant wrong addresses?


if my cameras see dark clad shapes moving, and no blue lights, or other lights, cars, etc and my dogs do not alert, katie bar the door... that tells me they have purpose and training, but still does not tell me they are legit.

remember, if you know they are coming, and do not know who they are, you have the advantage of home turf as to where to confront them and what to confront them with...

one should not always assume they would be police, with extensive training,..

they could be bad guys with extensive training...or wanna be's
both would have ugly conclusions.


I live a mile off the hwy, I can't see any other houses from my front door, only one from my back door, it is dark as hades with no moon, cross fenced with barbed wire in several spots, cow gates, no lights on, except for one gulf power light I pay for, in the back of the house, which lights the back..


i would not want to try and sneak up on me..

i do not mulch, the leaves and small branches are all over, i can hear an armadillo 25 yards away at night, and outdoor lights are set to angles to blind outsiders when turned on, and there is only one way in, same way out....


i even mow grass or bush hog with a gun in my pants during the day...in case BG's drive up and catches me between the unlocked house and me

If you’re not cheating you’re not trying.

Here’s another aspect, what if they don’t get the address wrong. I’m sure we’ve all heard at one point or another of “SWATTING”. Police think it’s a legit call, they get the address right, and the homeowner is still confused.
Now I’d think that so long it isn’t some odd hour and it’s a patrol responding, that should clear itself up. Except there’s cases in the past where it hasn’t.

As far as a self defense shooting, that’s easy. Reholster the heater after the threat has been neutralized, then make the call.

MAXman said:

If you’re not cheating you’re not trying.

Here’s another aspect, what if they don’t get the address wrong. I’m sure we’ve all heard at one point or another of “SWATTING”. Police think it’s a legit call, they get the address right, and the homeowner is still confused.
Now I’d think that so long it isn’t some odd hour and it’s a patrol responding, that should clear itself up. Except there’s cases in the past where it hasn’t.

As far as a self defense shooting, that’s easy. Reholster the heater after the threat has been neutralized, then make the call.

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several "wellness" checks in different places have gone very wrong also, resulting in deaths..

Law enforcement officers aren't in the top ten Most Dangerous Jobs.
Rank Occupation Fatal injuries per 100,000 workers Total deaths
1 Logging workers 135.9 91
2 Fishers and related fishing workers 86 24
3 Aircraft pilots and flight engineers 55.5 75
4 Roofers 48.6 101
5 Trash and recycling collectors 34.1 31
6 Iron and steel wokers 25.1 16
7 Truck and sales drivers 24.7 918
8 Farmers, ranchers, and other agricultural managers 23.1 260
9 First-line supervisors of construction trades and extraction workers 18 134
10 Grounds maintenance workers 17.4 217

Source: Census of Fatal Occupational Injuries, 2016

I would have thought it was , but apparently It's not as dangerous as we've been told.

FLT said:

Law enforcement officers aren't in the top ten Most Dangerous Jobs.
Rank Occupation Fatal injuries per 100,000 workers Total deaths
1 Logging workers 135.9 91
2 Fishers and related fishing workers 86 24
3 Aircraft pilots and flight engineers 55.5 75
4 Roofers 48.6 101
5 Trash and recycling collectors 34.1 31
6 Iron and steel wokers 25.1 16
7 Truck and sales drivers 24.7 918
8 Farmers, ranchers, and other agricultural managers 23.1 260
9 First-line supervisors of construction trades and extraction workers 18 134
10 Grounds maintenance workers 17.4 217

Source: Census of Fatal Occupational Injuries, 2016

I would have thought it was , but apparently It's not as dangerous as we've been told.

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I am really surprised and bothered by the high number of fatalities of professional pilots and flight engineers.


In keeping with Maxman's "cheating" philosophy - in researching some articles on this, I found information on the number of death resulting from high speed chases. In response, most states including Florida have passed laws requiring LEO to establish clear guidelines for when high speed chases are permitted. This change has been for the better. I wonder if we should legislate some additional limitations as to when "no knock" or "hard knock" warrants can be issued, i.e. put the onus on the judge to require certain criteria before allowing officers to served these types of warrants. Limit the time of day the warrants can be served . . .

Limiting time of day would not be feasable to affecting the warrant. And there already are certain criteria that the officers look at to determine what tactics are needed for each situation. Maybe that area could be improved. Idk

Good to know, thanks

Jeb21 said:

I am really surprised and bothered by the high number of fatalities of professional pilots and flight engineers.


In keeping with Maxman's "cheating" philosophy - in researching some articles on this, I found information on the number of death resulting from high speed chases. In response, most states including Florida have passed laws requiring LEO to establish clear guidelines for when high speed chases are permitted. This change has been for the better. I wonder if we should legislate some additional limitations as to when "no knock" or "hard knock" warrants can be issued, i.e. put the onus on the judge to require certain criteria before allowing officers to served these types of warrants. Limit the time of day the warrants can be served . . .

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As far as pilots and engineers, do they include military and civilian, or just civilian, or...?

FLT said:

Law enforcement officers aren't in the top ten Most Dangerous Jobs.
Rank Occupation Fatal injuries per 100,000 workers Total deaths
1 Logging workers 135.9 91
2 Fishers and related fishing workers 86 24
3 Aircraft pilots and flight engineers 55.5 75
4 Roofers 48.6 101
5 Trash and recycling collectors 34.1 31
6 Iron and steel wokers 25.1 16
7 Truck and sales drivers 24.7 918
8 Farmers, ranchers, and other agricultural managers 23.1 260
9 First-line supervisors of construction trades and extraction workers 18 134
10 Grounds maintenance workers 17.4 217

Source: Census of Fatal Occupational Injuries, 2016

I would have thought it was , but apparently It's not as dangerous as we've been told.

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The difference is most non-traffic related injuries to LEOs are intentional and not accidents. Event traffic related can be homicides. There was a lady LEO that was recently killed by juvenile burglar that ran her over.