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Friendly Fire - LEO shooting the good guys. How to prevent?

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  • wildrider666

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    I put a comments and 10 min bodycam Vid (which Networks don't play) in The Armchair Quarterback Thread (comments, discussion on LE, Mil and Civ Use of Force events). I also added a real "LE run-over" vid for comparison of media sensationalism terms being tossed around.
     

    MAXman

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    Thanks for the concern, but I am fine with discussing the cop car incident to the extent folks want to. I was especially impressed with Maxman's comments. I mean where did a Marine learn to write in complete sentences? :) What is next, Gorilla's writing Shakespeare?

    Community college.
     

    Jeb21

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    In law school I was in a study group with two marines and two sailors. The barbed jokes they tossed around. Talk about entertaining. All great guys and all of us are still friends.
     

    Jeb21

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    Lol. Well they claimed that their birth gender was male. Sailors the original gender-fluid humans
     

    spongemonkey

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    No offense to anyone what so ever but, a friend of mine (Army) has definitions for a few of the Armed Services Branches.
    Navy-Village People
    Air Force-Chair Force
    Marines-Crayon Eaters
     

    Jeb21

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    My grandfather served in the Navy during WWII. He was a construction engineer and an electrical engineer. He never saw combat and spend most of his time constructing bases on islands that had been secured from the Japanese. He had a saying - "There are two ways to do anything. The right way and the Army way." My dad served in the Air Force during Korea. He was a special agent in the OSI. One of his expressions was - "you must either be stupid or a sailor." Family dinners could be interesting.
     

    JBryan314

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    Disarm the police. Why?

    Police are agents of the state.

    The state eventually wants all citizens disarmed.

    Fuck the state.

    Disarm the state.

    Start at the bottom of the barrel. Or the end of the barrel?

    The largely disarmed police of the U.K. have little problem subjugating their people and turning them into helpless pansies. So our's don't need guns either.
     

    spongemonkey

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    My grandfather served in the Navy during WWII. He was a construction engineer and an electrical engineer. He never saw combat and spend most of his time constructing bases on islands that had been secured from the Japanese. He had a saying - "There are two ways to do anything. The right way and the Army way." My dad served in the Air Force during Korea. He was a special agent in the OSI. One of his expressions was - "you must either be stupid or a sailor." Family dinners could be interesting.

    My Dad was in the Air Force stationed in Guam during Korea. He loaded the bombers with ordinance to be dropped in Korea.
     

    wildrider666

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    ............

    The largely disarmed police of the U.K. have little problem subjugating their people and turning them into helpless pansies. So our's don't need guns either.

    Historically, the English have used their Military Forces to subjugate "their people" from the Colonies to the "Troubles" in Ireland. Current levels of violent crime and terrorism in the U.K. have led to more armed LE on the streets and firearms staged in vehicles on their home turf. Fact of the matter is that British Subjects have been subjected to ever increasing controls and restrictions on all forms of arms. The lack of civilian arms availability and what was for the most part a polite society allowed for unarmed police. Where does an unarmed LE exist where the civilians can have arms? Anybody here willing to give up their arms so LE gives up theirs?

    It may be an interesting to open a seperate Thread for discussion on how our society would function if LE were disarmed. Who would work in LE under such lopsided and potentially lethal conditions. It would disarm "agents of the State" but how would law and order be maintained on the streets? The real BGs our LE deal with are neither polite or unarmed. Vigilante justice, armed civ posse, militia justice or arm everybody and let them fend for themselves?

    Grandiose statements may sound ideal but the Devil is the details and reality. We can thump our chests and take care of ourselves but what about others? If there is no effective Law, Order will decay: what fills that void? Are there any thriving examples of lawless societies that equal our current living standards?
     

    Luv2Hunt

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    One of the things I was raised on was “ a complaint is a volunteer to fix”. I was not happy with local Deputies growing up. I didn’t just cry and complain about it, I became s deputy and did the best I could to show how I thought it should be done.
    I have challenged others to do their own investigations before spreading hate and discontent based on false news and lies, now I challenge those haters that think it’s so easy to go to the academy, pass the state test, and show everyone how easy it is. Bet you won’t volunteer to do it unarmed!
     
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    IronBeard

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    One of the things I was raised on was “ a complaint I’d a volunteer to fix”. I was not happy with local Deputies growing up. I didn’t just cry and complain about it, I became s deputy and did the best I could to show how I thought it should be done.
    I have challenged others to do their own investigations before spreading hate and discontent based on false news and lies, now I challenge those haters that think it’s so easy to go to the academy, pass the state test, and show everyone how easy it is. Bet you won’t volunteer to do it unarmed!

    The hook is showing, but I'll grab the bait for fun.

    I felt pretty challenged by basic, multiple levels of advanced skills training, refresher training, multiple weapons quals, service/joint/multi-national exercises, and those pesky deployment things. But you're right, that's not law enforcement.

    I won't bore you with my inside knowledge of law enforcement but will leave you with with what occurred in my three-year break in service, with injuries: State test: #1 score. State physical fitness test: #2 all time score in the state. #1 on hiring list after all the inquiries and interviews.

    Man, you're right, I'm just not up to it. You win. You're the best. And, thread lock for hurt feelings in 3, 2, 1.......

    Sent from my SM-J320V using Tapatalk
     
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    TK5o

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    Appreciate your service and sounds like you got some good scores. But just because you were in the military (even mp)does not automatically mean your are/will be a good civillian cop. They are vastly different jobs
     

    IronBeard

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    Appreciate your service and sounds like you got some good scores. But just because you were in the military (even mp)does not automatically mean your are/will be a good civillian cop. They are vastly different jobs
    I agree 110%. I was minding my own business, was approached/recruited by some local government folks, and went along to an extent. I am quite thankful to the Chief of that department for being very candid/honest. Based on what he permitted me to see/hear, before I signed on, I walked. He never discouraged me, but hid nothing, and probably revealed things he shouldn't have. But, he was a friend of friend, and I appreciate his honesty to this day. The downside is, I've seen what was better left unseen.

    Sent from my SM-J320V using Tapatalk
     

    Luv2Hunt

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    The hook is showing, but I'll grab the bait for fun.

    I felt pretty challenged by basic, multiple levels of advanced skills training, refresher training, multiple weapons quals, service/joint/multi-national exercises, and those pesky deployment things. But you're right, that's not law enforcement.

    I won't bore you with my inside knowledge of law enforcement but will leave you with with what occurred in my three-year break in service, with injuries: State test: #1 score. State physical fitness test: #2 all time score in the state. #1 on hiring list after all the inquiries and interviews.

    Man, you're right, I'm just not up to it. You win. You're the best. And, thread lock for hurt feelings in 3, 2, 1.......

    Sent from my SM-J320V using Tapatalk



    I'm sorry, I never meant to imply that I was the best at anything.
    Most of my Law Enforcement carrier took place in the retirement capital of the world and had the lowest crime rate South of Orlando, so by some accounts it should be considered safer and easier compared to some other Law Enforcement officers careers. I was trying to say that I did MY best and was the best Law Enforcement officer I could be. I never broke any records or set any standards.
    I did assume that anyone who would recommend that U.S. Law Enforcement be disarmed could never have been one, driving a marked patrol car and answering calls for service. Just never dreamed that someone with actual LE experience would say that. I may have been wrong.
    I do find it unfair to compare U.S. to other countries, where citizens are guilty until proven innocent, not allowed to own firearms, and maybe soon not allowed to carry knives...
    I was an MP for a few years (to include being recalled for Desert Shield/Desert Storm) and a civilian LE for a lot of years so I can say with experience that the two are not the same. Many common characteristics but very different.
    I do thank you for your service and commend you on not taking a job you were not comfortable with, but I am sorry that you took one agency to represent all LE agencies. Maybe I've been blessed in working for honest and decent agencies in my career.
     

    wildrider666

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    In short, there are those that have served in the Mil or LE, maybe both or neither. Nothing from prior experiences guarantees success or failure. It is how each individual executes their current duties that matters, nothing more. There are vast differences and those that have served both know the commonalities as well. All things considered, commonalities count, a prior Service member brings more to the table than an equivalent civilian IMHO.

    Unfortunately, there is a propensity to generalize bad actions of a few as representing the entire class of people.
     

    IronBeard

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    I'm sorry, I never meant to imply that I was the best at anything.
    Most of my Law Enforcement carrier took place in the retirement capital of the world and had the lowest crime rate South of Orlando, so by some accounts it should be considered safer and easier compared to some other Law Enforcement officers careers. I was trying to say that I did MY best and was the best Law Enforcement officer I could be. I never broke any records or set any standards.
    I did assume that anyone who would recommend that U.S. Law Enforcement be disarmed could never have been one, driving a marked patrol car and answering calls for service. Just never dreamed that someone with actual LE experience would say that. I may have been wrong.
    I do find it unfair to compare U.S. to other countries, where citizens are guilty until proven innocent, not allowed to own firearms, and maybe soon not allowed to carry knives...
    I was an MP for a few years (to include being recalled for Desert Shield/Desert Storm) and a civilian LE for a lot of years so I can say with experience that the two are not the same. Many common characteristics but very different.
    I do thank you for your service and commend you on not taking a job you were not comfortable with, but I am sorry that you took one agency to represent all LE agencies. Maybe I've been blessed in working for honest and decent agencies in my career.
    I too appologize if I attacked you personally. I'm not much for going backward. My experiences were at more than one level and I'll leave it there in an attempt not to judge all on my experiences.

    For the record, I do not advocate LE disarmament. I never meant to imply that. I don't think I did? I do advocate red flags, if I may use that term, that temporarily disarm and reassign anyone exibiting signs of dancing on the edge.

    I don't always agree with everything posted here, but picked one line from JBryan's post that rang true for me. That being that LE, personal opinions and convictions aside, are agents of the state.

    I'll be glad to share my rationale on the weekend, when I have more time. Or will simply leave it there, if there is no appetite.

    Peace. Out.

    Sent from my SM-J320V using Tapatalk
     

    wildrider666

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    Officer Shoots through window, kills woman in her home while doing structure check.

    Another case of LE shooting from outside the home at a resident inside. A gun was found in the bedroom where woman was killed (come on, its Texas!) "Gun" is ON A NIGHTSTAND in the Cop cam. About zero time for compliance to Officers orders before the shot. Was movement of hands as order the threat? Once again a physical barrier between them, so what "threat" was observed that could have passed through the barrier?

    As usual, some race baiters in media drop the White on Black theme headline.
    https://www.npr.org/2019/10/13/7698...er-bedroom-in-response-to-open-structure-call

    Cop cam vid here:
    https://www.dallasnews.com/news/201...-officer-fatally-shoot-woman-inside-her-home/

    I, like probably millions of other people have guns readily available or carried in defense of life in and around the home. This is another very disturbing LE shooting.
     
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