Am I the only one concerned about 2020?

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  • Lindenwood

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    I will happily admit that I was among many who spent extra money stocking up on survival supplies in the weeks prior to the elections of both 2008 and 2012. These actions were borne out of mild concerns that if Obama wasn't elected, there could be some level of unrest.

    To be clear, I always keep at least a 1-month supply of food and other stuff (toilet paper, dog food, etc), so adding a few extra weeks worth of canned and dried goods wasnt a huge departure from my normal behavior. But, I figured if tensions did indeed rise, access to food and supplies might be more limited or less safe for some period. Plus, I figured an additional hundred bucks worth of food and supplies wasnt a big deal since I rotate through that food anyways.

    That said, right-wing extremist terrorism occurs more often than we like to admit (1), and I don't think any of us could disagree that sociopolitical tensions are pretty high right now. Thus, I don't think it is unfair to be concerned that said extremists who might vehemently support Trump (or, more specifically, support any person or institution that is outwardly opposed to the "left") might be inclined to commit acts of terror or violence--especially after almost undoubtedly being taunted and provoked by modern liberals and the objectively left-biased media.

    I only bring this up because I remember it seemed to be a pretty regular topic of discussion when we were talking about left-driven unrest, but it comes up less these days. Am I the only one concerned about what happens if Trump doesn't get re-elected, or even worse, gets impeached?

    To perhaps shed some light on my perspective, I am a pretty neutral Libertarian with 4 combat deployments to the middle-east, a Mensa membership, and a life-time NRA membership. I recycle 40% of my household waste while driving a lifted truck on mud-tires, sleep with 4 firearms within 2 steps of my bed, have a pretty impressive stash of ammunition, and am married to a religious-yet-somehow-granola Yoga instructor. I am a couple months from finishing my Master's thesis and, Oh, FWIW, I'm also a black dude.

    I hope this doesn't come across as offensive to any of you. I have been a member of various shooting clubs for about a decade now and 99% of my interactions have been both pleasant and respectful as one would come to expect from traditional southerners (I even have a good friend I met at the ERGC). But, I think we all know there are bad apples at all extremes of our ideological spectra, and if the last administration gave us concerns about the far-left, I think it is equally fair to be concerned about the current climate's potential for instigating the far-right (largely owing to the constant taunting and condescension by modern liberals and the objectively left-biased media). That said, I am primarily raising this topic primarily through the lens of a prepper, rather than as a wannabe social commentator.

    Resoectfully,

    Lindenwood
     

    LowRiderRed

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    You bring up some good points. There is really no reason to believe that either side has our best interests at heart.
     

    FrankT

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    Not concerned at this time, if the economy continues and Trump makes peace in Korea, I feel he is unbeatable. It is congress I am worried about with the corrupt lifers on both sides, illegal voters and caving or rino republicans.
     

    wildrider666

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    Prepping is a partial solution to several scenarios, can't hurt.

    I think you take what Peter Singer wrote as gospel. True connections between "extremist terrorism" and the political supported Right Wing are not present. It is just a convenient blending by the Left. This is no different then saying the entire Right Wing is racist. Even if someone has similar core beliefs, it is the act of crossing the line of legality with their actions that clearly seperate them from the Right. Do we judge all by the actions of a few? We know that is a popular political action driving gun control, but that is not how I want to be judged. I don't know your if your preference is to be viewed as a individual or desire to carry every bit of baggage that can be connected to you by the thinnest of generalities?
     
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    I’ve lived in an almost steady state of concern since around 2010, don’t remember exactly what happened but it seems we have weekly mass shootings that lead to conversations of we need to confiscate firearms. Then police shootings that lead to riots, even though it’s later found out they were completely justified. Screams from the left that we will have “no peace” I’ve just assumed sooner or later we’ll have bloodshed.
    Prepping is also imperative living on the coast with hurricanes, whenever one hits it’s a good idea to have supplies. I’m 40, have had floodwater in my home 3 times over my lifetime and not once has anyone came around to help that wasn’t a friend or family.


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    Mouser

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    Interesting read and there is absolutely nothing wrong with being prepared for a month of interrupted supply...there are many, many things that could do a thing like that. As it relates to extremism, it has always been here though I sense the political world in general is in a state of shock over Trump and over his success so far. Only a few have used the term coupe...but what is happening is a bloodless (so far) attempt to remove a duly elected President from office imo. When govt entities such as the FBI, DOJ, IRS, EPA etc...supported by a media turned propaganda arm for the political elite; there is no doubt that there is a bubbling magma chamber below our feet building pressure.

    I will say this about right vs. left...and this is a gross generalization...the right believes the the means justify the ends and the left feel the ends justify the means. People that are conservative tend to be an orderly, lawful bunch and teach there kids "its not whether you win or lose, its how you play the game". The left tend to be a bit more free thinking and idealistic and place great faith in our govt....many people from that view will teach their kids "just win baby!"

    As I became more aware of philosophy and human behavior I really began to see some definitive characteristics that kept repeating. While not impossible at all, the vast majority of political unrest, mass violence and general havoc (ANTIFA comes to mind) will not be perpetrated by lawful, orderly people...if we ever get that group to pick up arms, we've all got a real problem on our hands! The people that commit those crimes are either not educated and easily persuaded by professional agitators or they fall into the group that the end justifies the means....real life thugs!

    This thing about right or left...I just am not aware of anybody on the "right" shooting up disco's and concerts. Now my definition of "right" may not be correct. When I think "right" I'm thinking of people that work for a living, pay their taxes, many go to church and generally speaking put effort into living by the laws of the land and doing so by the skill and will of their own head, heart and hands. That definition can describe many people on the left too so definitions are important. Remember, not all Muslims are terrorists but nearly all terrorists are Muslim....to me, our real issue is our inability (or reluctance) to identify and quantify this group of radicals that will use whatever means necessary to seize power, wealth and sustain their position...kinda like the Clinton's seem to have done...

    And yes, if Trump was removed from office in an unlawful manner that would spark a reaction. Him being impeached? Well that depends on what for...him not being reelected...that won't spark anything but sorrow for our expanding economy, growing 401k, energy independence, check on over-bearing govt and general de-regulation that has allowed most people to begin to breath and plan for better times.

    Also...and I am serious...please comment on "That said, right-wing extremist terrorism occurs more often than we like to admit (1)". I know some people refer to Nazi's as right wing...and there are some neo-nazi groups people refer to as right-wing but I truly am not sure why...I cant find much of anything I relate to right wing...or maybe because I am using the term right wing and conservative too interchangeably and they are not.
     

    Lindenwood

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    Prepping is a partial solution to several scenarios, can't hurt.

    I think you take what Peter Singer wrote as gospel. True connections between "extremist terrorism" and the political supported Right Wing are not present. It is just a convenient blending by the Left. This is no different then saying the entire Right Wing is racist. Even if someone has similar core beliefs, it is the act of crossing the line of legality with their actions that clearly seperate them from the Right. Do we judge all by the actions of a few? We know that is a popular political action driving gun control, but that is not how I want to be judged. I don't know your if your preference is to be viewed as a individual or desire to carry every bit of baggage that can be connected to you by the thinnest of generalities?
    I don't know who that is, actually. But, please don't misconstrue "right-wing extremism" with any sort of politicized generalization about the right--I myself have never voted for a democrat.

    I am using the terms from an academic perspective, not a political one; if "left wing" and "right wing" refer to respectively progressive / liberal and conservative / traditionalist sociopolitical ideologies (literally sitting on the left and right sides of the room in legislative sessions), then "extremists" of those ideologies are categorized by fanatical, purist views of those perspectives to the point they would cause economic or physical harm to those who they feel are in opposition to those views. Thus, "extremists" can and do exist both on the left (see "ecoterrorism", or the villain in The Black Panther) and the right.

    Relevant to this discussion, there are absolutely those who have committed acts objectively definable as terrorism, who have self-identified with extreme-right ideologies. At the forefront, for example, are the man who deliberately ran down the protestors in Charleston, and the individual who shot up the black church in in Charlotte. Both openly identified as white-supremacists, which is clearly an extreme-right ideology.

    All I am saying is I think it might be a little naive to believe there aren't people out there who are either angry enough or unstable enough to be triggered toward violence by a perceived "deep state" political attack on President Trump.

    As a black dude, sure I probably might be a little more concerned about such an attack than the average joe. Despite all the great interactions I've had with the vast majority of perfectly-normal conservative whites, I've also been openly scoffed at by strangers, and on two occasions I've been searched against the trunk of my car for no apparent reason.

    Still, the aforementioned vengeful violence could easily come in the form of somebody engaging in indiscriminate violence (with a vehicle, guns, or hell, molotov cocktails) at a crowded Walmart before Christmas because they perceive it as being mostly full of "liberals" (or however they define their enemy). I am sure most of us can imagine such a scenario where we our out shopping with our families and some nutjob (and yes, most of us would likely describe such an individual as a nutjob) starts shooting or rams his vehicle through the entry way.

    Thus, I'd say I am at least as uneasy about sociopolitical violence in the next couple years as I was during the Obama years.
     

    Lindenwood

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    Interesting read and there is absolutely nothing wrong with being prepared for a month of interrupted supply...there are many, many things that could do a thing like that. As it relates to extremism, it has always been here though I sense the political world in general is in a state of shock over Trump and over his success so far. Only a few have used the term coupe...but what is happening is a bloodless (so far) attempt to remove a duly elected President from office imo. When govt entities such as the FBI, DOJ, IRS, EPA etc...supported by a media turned propaganda arm for the political elite; there is no doubt that there is a bubbling magma chamber below our feet building pressure.

    I will say this about right vs. left...and this is a gross generalization...the right believes the the means justify the ends and the left feel the ends justify the means. People that are conservative tend to be an orderly, lawful bunch and teach there kids "its not whether you win or lose, its how you play the game". The left tend to be a bit more free thinking and idealistic and place great faith in our govt....many people from that view will teach their kids "just win baby!"

    As I became more aware of philosophy and human behavior I really began to see some definitive characteristics that kept repeating. While not impossible at all, the vast majority of political unrest, mass violence and general havoc (ANTIFA comes to mind) will not be perpetrated by lawful, orderly people...if we ever get that group to pick up arms, we've all got a real problem on our hands! The people that commit those crimes are either not educated and easily persuaded by professional agitators or they fall into the group that the end justifies the means....real life thugs!

    This thing about right or left...I just am not aware of anybody on the "right" shooting up disco's and concerts. Now my definition of "right" may not be correct. When I think "right" I'm thinking of people that work for a living, pay their taxes, many go to church and generally speaking put effort into living by the laws of the land and doing so by the skill and will of their own head, heart and hands. That definition can describe many people on the left too so definitions are important. Remember, not all Muslims are terrorists but nearly all terrorists are Muslim....to me, our real issue is our inability (or reluctance) to identify and quantify this group of radicals that will use whatever means necessary to seize power, wealth and sustain their position...kinda like the Clinton's seem to have done...

    And yes, if Trump was removed from office in an unlawful manner that would spark a reaction. Him being impeached? Well that depends on what for...him not being reelected...that won't spark anything but sorrow for our expanding economy, growing 401k, energy independence, check on over-bearing govt and general de-regulation that has allowed most people to begin to breath and plan for better times.

    Also...and I am serious...please comment on "That said, right-wing extremist terrorism occurs more often than we like to admit (1)". I know some people refer to Nazi's as right wing...and there are some neo-nazi groups people refer to as right-wing but I truly am not sure why...I cant find much of anything I relate to right wing...or maybe because I am using the term right wing and conservative too interchangeably and they are not.
    See my above post. But, in general, "the right" and the "extreme right" are not the same thing, and it is unfortunate that our current sociopolitical climate has so clouded these academic terms that they cannot be separated without several paragraphs to explain the difference.

    As to how one can classify white supremacy or anti-feminism (which itself is only the belief that women should be treated as equals) exists at the "extreme right," consider the following.

    In many respects, I would call myself a conservative man. Like most conservative men, I fully believe that the responsibility for the current and future welfare of my family is entirely mine--not my parents', not my neighbors', and not the governments'. A "very" conservative man might take that a step further, and say his wife should therefore not take any professional jobs, since supporting a household is only a man's responsibility (FWIW, my wife is only part-time yoga instructor so she can take care of our baby--so there is no judgment against stay-at-home moms or their husbands). A "very, very" conservative man might take that a step further, and say no women should be allowed to work. And, taking it two or three steps beyond that, a "conservative extremist" might then be so frustrated about some organization's pursuit of equal rights for women that he would commit open acts of violence against it out of spite for their efforts.
     

    FrankT

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    I think when you start trying to define conservatives into 5 different categories you are berating the term. the far out stuff is not conservative at all it is just extreme, nothing left or right about it and there is nothing extreme to conservative folks. I for one am a Conservative who votes Republican because the democrats vote in lockstep without free thought. The more liberal and socialist they become the further I am away from them and that is either side.
     

    IronBeard

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    Trump is a pawn in a bigger game played by the senate and congress, and they are enabled/supported by alphabet agencies whose funding they control. Trump represents hope for better, but beyond who he can appoint/fire, has little power that is not throttled by the senate and congress. The future does not depend on Trump.

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    FrankT

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    I would say Trump has played the swamp and is winning where he can.without him you would have the criminal hitlary or a RINO. Lowers taxes, peace in Korea and the Supreme Court, If he does those he will be one of the best POTUS in History
     

    fl57caveman

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    I cannot think of right wing extremism violent attacks in any recent history, but then again, I have been busy working 10-12 hr a day for a while now, paying taxes, going to church and back to the house...

    any one know of one?
     

    Lindenwood

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    Perhaps it is more difficult than I expected to conversarsionally separate academically-defined ideological extremism from our own sociopolitically-defined worldviews.

    In any case, these are just a couple articles about the two acts I mentioned.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th...rginia-unite-the-right-rally-protest-violence

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charleston_church_shooting

    And, some interesting reading, for anyone open to it.
    http://www.politifact.com/californi...rries-out-more-terror-attacks-us-soil-right-/


    We seem to be stuck on the idea of right-wing extremism. Out of curiosity, would anyone be able to provide examples of--whether real or hypothetical--left-wing violent extremists?
     

    John B.

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    Pics of yoga instructor?

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    fl57caveman

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    Perhaps it is more difficult than I expected to conversarsionally separate academically-defined ideological extremism from our own sociopolitically-defined worldviews.

    In any case, these are just a couple articles about the two acts I mentioned.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th...rginia-unite-the-right-rally-protest-violence

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charleston_church_shooting

    And, some interesting reading, for anyone open to it.
    http://www.politifact.com/californi...rries-out-more-terror-attacks-us-soil-right-/


    We seem to be stuck on the idea of right-wing extremism. Out of curiosity, would anyone be able to provide examples of--whether real or hypothetical--left-wing violent extremists?

    I had forgotten about those, too much on my head lately.. violent from either side, invites, and promotes more violence, leading to I am afraid ,a class warfare, or left vs right with righteous lawabiding gun owning constitution following citizens in the middle...

    to choose a side.
     

    Droshki

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    I do believe I have met her, have I not? Few month ago... At a department store?

    You are a fortunate man, I was impressed :)
     

    Jason

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    2020 will be the liberals saving grace....Eric Holder fer Prez!!! Hahahaha
     
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