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  • FrommerStop

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    The Ole " Spray & Pray " never worked that well for me......A good trigger and staying on the trigger and not slapping it yields better results for me.....YMMV

    Oh Hell, Now they will try to Outlaw Index Fingers !!!
    My experience with full auto is limited to the few times someone let me fire theirs or I rented one. For to blanket an general area at 100 yards i could do that with a rented Thompson machine gun. At real close ranges things like sten gun, MP5, Owens, or a BAR are devastating or so it seemed relative to the dirt they kicked up. I think FA capability would be a nice to have, but hard to beat aimed semiauto if you want to kill. It is at point blank range that FA appears to really be great, especially against multiple opponents. It is my understanding in FL that one can not legally CCW a registered NFA machine pistol which there were at one time some people doing.
     

    MAXman

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    My experience with full auto is limited to the few times someone let me fire theirs or I rented one. For to blanket an general area at 100 yards i could do that with a rented Thompson machine gun. At real close ranges things like sten gun, MP5, Owens, or a BAR are devastating or so it seemed relative to the dirt they kicked up. I think FA capability would be a nice to have, but hard to beat aimed semiauto if you want to kill. It is at point blank range that FA appears to really be great, especially against multiple opponents. It is my understanding in FL that one can not legally CCW a registered NFA machine pistol which there were at one time some people doing.

    I can't think of any professional organization that actually uses full auto(cyclic fire, hold and dump), but short bursts are very effective.
    Even in a light or medium machine gun like the 240g, it's 4-6 round bursts. Remains controllable and acts like a long range shotgun.

    Only time I fired 3 round burst with a rifle was on the close quarters/table 2 range for qualifications, they had us do a mag to help critique our stance. It was funny doing it and watching others, as you work through the mag you go from a more upright stance too the linebacker position.
     

    FrommerStop

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    I can't think of any professional organization that actually uses full auto(cyclic fire, hold and dump), but short bursts are very effective.
    Even in a light or medium machine gun like the 240g, it's 4-6 round bursts. Remains controllable and acts like a long range shotgun.

    Only time I fired 3 round burst with a rifle was on the close quarters/table 2 range for qualifications, they had us do a mag to help critique our stance. It was funny doing it and watching others, as you work through the mag you go from a more upright stance too the linebacker position.
    I once watched an experienced machinguner (Man that owned diverse FA weapons and practiced with them) firing a FA AK47 off the shoulder in normal shooting position without doing anything special hold the gun down. At the 50 yd line there was about 30 ft of so high berm. The last rounds of his 3 shot bursts were very close to the top of the berm. He could have held the ak down a bit, but it demonstrates the difficulty with using many rifles in FA. He had modified a 9mm MAC to use the buttstock and buffer of an AR and really slowed the cycle rate down. With no practice at all I managed to complete destroy my stand at 50 yard. It was really a controllable FA weapon. I could easily have killed opponents with that gun. Normally a mac has a tremendous cyclic rate and really wants to climb.
     

    FrommerStop

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    Don't know why, but this statement has me a little disturbed. Could you tell me you definition of "opponent", so I can think about something else?
    My guns are not toys. They are weapons or training devices. Opponent, is s foe any better. Someone that would do me harm by committing violence. Where are you coming from? Yesterday a bunch of misled youth that were marching against the second amendment probably would be disturbed also by shooting opponents.

    I have lost my taste for hunting and kill to control certain animals on my place and do not feel good about it. The animals are not my foes. I have no desire to kill anything, human or animal, but sometimes it is necessary. Man is capable of thinking and a man that would harm me is a foe.
    I even feel a little sad when I kill a water moccasin that ventures onto my place that I kill with extreme prejudice. Killing is a destructive act and that is what bothers me about it, but I do like good beefsteak. Watching animals being slaughtered or shot does bother me somewhat and so I now dislike doing it. Basically killing is sometimes under the right circumstances when all is considered a logical act. If that disturbs you and it appears that you are selling guns! Do you not find that inconsistent?
    I am not opposed to hunting, but I have changed as I have gotten older about my doing it. Heck I even feel sorry for the weeds, insects, and slugs that I kill in my garden. But I have sprayers for dealing with them and guns for larger things.
    Survival trumps all.
     
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    I sell guns. If someone came to pick up an AR15, and said, "I could easily kill opponents" with the gun I was selling him, I would think, "who are these opponents"? Members of an opposing religion or political party? His wife's family? Rival gang members?

    Or, am I just to assume he means an armed mass of enemy combatants headed down his driveway?
     

    FrommerStop

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    I sell guns. If someone came to pick up an AR15, and said, "I could easily kill opponents" with the gun I was selling him, I would think, "who are these opponents"? Members of an opposing religion or political party? His wife's family? Rival gang members?

    Or, am I just to assume he means an armed mass of enemy combatants headed down his driveway?
    Why would you assume anything other than
    an armed mass of enemy combatants headed down his driveway
    I would only ever shoot at another human being under the most dire of circumstances as is the case for most of us here. So do you ask your customers to fill out a questionnaire prior to doing business? Yes there are moral issues when one does sell guns. Once when buying a .38 for use in the woods the clerk told me he had sold the same model of gun to a young woman that committed suicide with it. It bothered him since she was a good looking woman and he did entertain a thought it be nice to ask her out. Her fiance had died and she became depressed and killed herself. She did asked if she put the gun to someone's head would the gun kill them and he felt badly he had not asked her more questions.
     

    Whisky

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    FrommerStop

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    Hey, I'm just asking some questions, and thinking about some tragic events, and working on some ideas.
    I do not think either you or I are trolls.

    I think you were asking an honest question and I am an individual with very different outlooks than what is common for many people. But I am absolutely against anything that allows a government, powerful private organizations, and powerful individuals to control by force of arms the individual citizens of our country. I come into this from a different viewpoint than others, but I am 100% supportive of the bill of rights and how it limits the powerful from suppression of the people of this nation.
     
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    Now that I have asked my questions, and you have answered, I think we may have quite a few things in common that I never would have known - if I hadn't asked.
     

    wildrider666

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    I think the intent/meaning of the term "opponent" is very clear based on paragraph text dealing with putting rounds on target/threat as represented by synonyms for it: enemy, combatant, foe and adversary. Example: Your opponent in a duel.

    Its an obsurd snowflake stretch to think its meaning/intent based on paragraph text, represents someone who supports a different position in debate or politics as that is not what the paragraph is about. Example: His opponent used false representations to derail the topic.
     

    Mouser

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    I have found, in many cases, once you get beyond the labels and ideological presumptions; most of us have very similar principles and ethics....we differ often on how to accomplish/safeguard those ideals but very few people think it ok to use force or fraud for personal gain....and those that follow that creed tend to be viewed as criminals in our society.
     
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    I think the intent/meaning of the term "opponent" is very clear based on paragraph text dealing with putting rounds on target/threat as represented by synonyms for it: enemy, combatant, foe and adversary. Example: Your opponent in a duel.

    Its an obsurd snowflake stretch to think its meaning/intent based on paragraph text, represents someone who supports a different position in debate or politics as that is not what the paragraph is about. Example: His opponent used false representations to derail the topic.

    What is a good name for someone who "restarts" a debate, after a resolution between debating parties has been reached? A co-opponent? I only have one frame of reference for the use of bump stocks, against what I imagine someone thought were "opponents". None of the victims, I think, would anyone consider an enemy, combatant, or foe.
     

    FrommerStop

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    What is a good name for someone who "restarts" a debate, after a resolution between debating parties has been reached? A co-opponent? I only have one frame of reference for the use of bump stocks, against what I imagine someone thought were "opponents". None of the victims, I think, would anyone consider an enemy, combatant, or foe.
    Should dong my taxes, but you raise an interesting technical question. The one documented use of bump stocks to commit a crime which was a massacre of innocent spectators to an outdoor music event.
    It was my understanding that he used multiple rifles that were fitted with bump stocks. When he got a stoppage on one rifle he went on to the next rifle. He was almost shooting fish in a barrel. The bumps stocks worked quite well for putting a lot of bullets into a specific area full of people without much cover. This maniac was intelligent and did plan reasonably well what he did.

    What is a good name for someone who "restarts" a debate,
    A debate restarter. Do we have anyone trained in latin or classical greek to do it right?
     
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    wildrider666

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    What is a good name for someone who "restarts" a debate, after a resolution between debating parties has been reached? A co-opponent? I only have one frame of reference for the use of bump stocks, against what I imagine someone thought were "opponents". None of the victims, I think, would anyone consider an enemy, combatant, or foe.

    Since every GCGF Member that reads a Post makes a "judgement" on it (agree, disagree, like, hate or no opinion), it would be similar to "A Friend of the Court Brief". As such, I presented two seperate and completely different examples of usage and application to the text that included the term. Co-opponent? It seems your still having problems understanding the word. Opponent(s) infers specific or general knowledge of each other or each others association, group, team, gang, army, country AND some form of opposition (words, gamesmanship, tactics or force against each other in the past, present and/or future.

    ".........WHAT I IMAGINE SOMEONE THOUGHT WERE OPPONENTS." Are you the only living person that knows Paddocks' motive? Your guessing what some dead murderer "may have been thinking" to insert the term "opponents", when every other creditable source justifiably referes to them collectively as victims. You know better and even state so in your next sentence.

    You can reject my opinion but please use more then imagination and guesswork to substantiate yours. I honestly think your an intelligent person and were fishing for a different agenda. IMHO
     
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