Arming Teachers..

IronBeard · Mar 3, 2018

Yeah, sorry guys, this is gonna degenerate into a "pay me" kinda deal. Sounds good right now, but wait until the "do something" wears off and teachers start demanding "hazardous duty" pay, and then the ones who don't get it start complaining that they are in more danger than the teachers who are armed. Oh boy, just wait until the union mentality takes over........

IMO, there are physical security measures involving changes to the building structure, such as more doors creating entrapment areas, that would limit how far and where a shooter could move. Yes that would take someone on the ball to push a button, or whatever, an lock things down. But, it would be a one-time cost followed by maintenance/upkeep and provide lasting deterrence/protection.

wildrider666 · Mar 3, 2018

Defensive structure will only delay and possibly stop an event that was not preplanned. Most of these events are done by individuals familiar with the location. Everything discussed under the topic of school hardening can be circumvented except resistance from armed staff MEMBERS (more the one). BGs will always have the advantage of surprise but that ends with the first rounds or alarm. An amed teacher or SRO could be targeted first but strength/resistance increases with each additionally armed staff member whether advancing toward threat area or protecting their students in place. IMHO

latch · Mar 3, 2018

IronBeard said:
Yeah, sorry guys, this is gonna degenerate into a "pay me" kinda deal. Sounds good right now, but wait until the "do something" wears off and teachers start demanding "hazardous duty" pay, and then the ones who don't get it start complaining that they are in more danger than the teachers who are armed. Oh boy, just wait until the union mentality takes over........

IMO, there are physical security measures involving changes to the building structure, such as more doors creating entrapment areas, that would limit how far and where a shooter could move. Yes that would take someone on the ball to push a button, or whatever, an lock things down. But, it would be a one-time cost followed by maintenance/upkeep and provide lasting deterrence/protection.

This is right but reliance on facilities alone won't solve it either. You cannot just "arm" teachers for all these reasons. You create more problems than you solve. The answer of shootings in schools is the same as the answer to shooting in malls or shootings in drug stores or movie theaters. Let those who want to carry, carry. Those that don't, don't. The ones who do are the ones who will willingly run to the threat anyway. Simply take away the restrictions. Like I said somewhere else, this society needs LESS regulation not more. Let people be free to defend themselves and others, or run/hide/fight as they see fit. Schools don't need more programs or payscales or classifications. Just let everyone have the rights that they have everywhere else in society.

IronBeard · Mar 4, 2018

FWIW, I do not believe facility measures are the ultimate answer, but they are a start, and entrapment areas done right trap individuals right there until allowed through. I also do not think arming teachers is anything more than a means of making a potential determined shooter think twice, and come up with a plan to counter. I just don't see teachers armed/trained to operator level, and most of LE are not trained to operator level.

The real problem is societal. IMO, it's not even a mental health issue in many cases. Mental health is one of those fields that propagates itself by labeling as many as possible to keep the industry healthy. Not saying there are not people with real mental problems. Just that there are people with everyday problems, who are allowed/encouraged to "act out," and rather than being parented/disciplined, they are labeled and protected.

IMO, this Cruz kid tried over 30 times to get someone's attention, and each time he didn't get it, he turned it up a notch. Massive system failure on multiple fronts, to say the least.

capt.joe · Mar 4, 2018

John B. said:
I don't think anyone is in favor of arming every teacher... even though the media makes it seem that way.

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I'm out of the country and not getting all the news, but my wife is telling me she thinks Trump wants all teachers armed. My wife is a petite and mild mannered person and would never consider carrying in school. Her first thought is that a kid could take a gun from her. BUT, She is afraid of some of the 12 yr olds who seem to have issues. We have to fix how these kids are being raised. Its beyond me how we as a society can fix this. It didnt happen overnight

capt.joe · Mar 4, 2018

I told her it might be time for another career if she has to watch out for 12 yr old kids

FrommerStop · Mar 7, 2018

Viking1204 said:
That's why they call it CONCEALED carry. The goal is to have volunteers come forward and get good training on how to handle a firearm and the situations they might run into. Keeping the weapons concealed would mean the students would have no idea which teachers are carrying if it's done right.

That is very wishful thinking. If it is a gun of any size the students with time will figure it out. A friend of mine that currently teaches has all sorts of security for his smart phone to prevent being hacked by his students. One has to realize that level of respect that teachers in some begone age might of had from the students is long gone.
I would like to see that admin and some of the none teaching staff voluntarily armed. I want their training at least on par with what the local LEOs get, but hopefully with better marksmanship. Shooting in a crowded venue like a class room is not something that I would want to do, but on the other hand I would not want to be there and be disarmed. The florida senate bill with exceptions like for ROTC instructors, coaches, some former military, LEOs will not allow carry by teachers.

IronBeard · Mar 8, 2018

First question on Florida concealed carry application asks if YOU desire the ability to legally carry a concealed weapon for YOUR personal protection.

Nowhere on the application do I see white-knighting clearly authorized in a manner that suffciently protects/holds harmless the CCW holder.

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Droshki · Mar 8, 2018

It's my understanding that the bill that's about to hit Rick Scott's desk for his signature today, among other things, bans bump stocks.

How's that going to work? Will current owners have to surrender them to the government, or does it only ban new purchases?

What about sales between private individuals? How will they be able to tell the difference from an in-state private sale or someone illegally bringing one in from out of state? It seem to me that the only way to tell this is to register the current ones to thier owners. Is this part of the plan?

Will this ban also apply to binary (and other) triggers?

Who's followed this close enough to know the answer to these questions?

Or has the text of the bill not even been released to the public?

Snake-Eyes · Mar 8, 2018

Droshki said:
It's my understanding that the bill that's about to hit Rick Scott's desk for his signature today, among other things, bans bump stocks.

How's that going to work? Will current owners have to surrender them to the government, or does it only ban new purchases?

What about sales between private individuals? How will they be able to tell the difference from an in-state private sale or someone illegally bringing one in from out of state? It seem to me that the only way to tell this is to register the current ones to thier owners. Is this part of the plan?

Will this ban also apply to binary (and other) triggers?

Who's followed this close enough to know the answer to these questions?

Or has the text of the bill not even been released to the public?

Seems like you're in the wrong thread, and a few days late to the party.
The answers to your questions:

https://www.gulfcoastgunforum.com/s...s-and-governor&p=402418&viewfull=1#post402418

EDIT to add:
Yes, the Senate verbiage was released. Not sure on the final bill, but if the house passed it to the Governor's desk, there shouldn't be any changes.

"Bump-fire stock" is defined so loosely and in such broad/general terms, it could be interpreted to almost any mod to the Firearm (not just rifles; pistols, too).

And it would be a FELONY to simply Possess it.

Droshki · Mar 8, 2018

Well.....all in all.....I think we should keep our expectations realistic:

Snake-Eyes · Mar 8, 2018

Themac5150 · Mar 9, 2018

Droshki,

I believe we are keeping realistic expections. What your photo fails to show is the immediate apprehension of the bad guy by all of the good guys with the guns. He was immediately stopped. ALL responses will be REACTIONARY! If the bad guy was wielding a machete, he still would have injured someone before being stopped. All of the injured thankfully survived this lunatic’s attack at point blank range. The fact that someone can attempt to assassinate the President of the United States and be free to walk among us today is a discussion for a whole different thread. The legislators are going about this wrong way IMO. The extensive training requirements for one, are sure to spawn “companies” or other organizations to capitalize on the new requirements. I believe just the simple act of allowing concealed permit holders to carry at school would give those charged with protecting children the tools to be able to do so. A small light weight 38+p carried IWB could easily be concealed and no one would have to know. It should be an all volunteer force, and not limited to instructional personnel. Administrators, staff and aides should be allowed. There should be no more training requirements than any other CCW holder. There are many ex-military and prior law enforcement folks that are now employed in the school system that would have no problem continuing to defend and protect. I firmly believe if armed, someone would’ve stopped Cruz dead in his tracks. The amazing heroes proved what their mettle was made of by shielding students with their own bodies. Imagine the thunder they could have unleashed if but a few of them were allowed to carry the tools necessary to stop a bad guy with a gun. We already know having law enforcement personnel present does not guarantee protection.

JBryan314 · Mar 26, 2018

So for those of you living in Escambia County, Florida... I just read in the paper that Escambia County will NOT be participating in the voluntary "Coach Aaron Feis" school safety program, which means they will NOT be allowing ANY teachers to carry concealed weapons on school property.

So there y'all have it! Your good old Republican Party officials from the top of the state right down to the bottom, have given you absolutely fucking nothing out of this "compromise" bill.

You get age restrictions, waiting periods, you lose your bump stocks and now ALL of your teachers are totally and officially barred from carrying on school grounds, and it's codified in the lawbooks.

So how's that whole "just vote republican" bullshit going for you? I'm sitting here in Santa Rosa County myself waiting to find out if our local fiefdom kings will do the same.

Land of the free my ass. We are sunk. We can't even get an inch on a "compromise" bill anymore. But by all means, please find some other little piece that you don't think you need and sacrifice it to the gun grabbers in exchange for, well, nothing. How about holographic sights? Who needs a holographic sight anyway?

FrommerStop · Mar 26, 2018

JBryan314 said:
So for those of you living in Escambia County, Florida... I just read in the paper that Escambia County will NOT be participating in the voluntary "Coach Aaron Feis" school safety program, which means they will NOT be allowing ANY teachers to carry concealed weapons on school property.

So there y'all have it! Your good old Republican Party officials from the top of the state right down to the bottom, have given you absolutely fucking nothing out of this "compromise" bill.

You get age restrictions, waiting periods, you lose your bump stocks and now ALL of your teachers are totally and officially barred from carrying on school grounds, and it's codified in the lawbooks.

So how's that whole "just vote republican" bullshit going for you? I'm sitting here in Santa Rosa County myself waiting to find out if our local fiefdom kings will do the same.

Land of the free my ass. We are sunk. We can't even get an inch on a "compromise" bill anymore. But by all means, please find some other little piece that you don't think you need and sacrifice it to the gun grabbers in exchange for, well, nothing. How about holographic sights? Who needs a holographic sight anyway?

Likely due at least in to the attitude of the head of the School in Escambia county that was on TV expressing such extreme anti gun views.

The Escambia County, FL board of county commissioners have repeatedly made rulings against local gun clubs. Most recent was restricting any development by the Pensacola Rifle and Pistol Club from developing facilities on new adjacent land which they purchased that a local developer wanted to buy.

JBryan314 · Mar 26, 2018

FrommerStop said:
Likely due at least in to the attitude of the head of the School in Escambia county that was on TV expressing such extreme anti gun views.

The Escambia County, FL board of county commissioners have repeatedly made rulings against local gun clubs. Most recent was restricting any development by the Pensacola Rifle and Pistol Club from developing facilities on new adjacent land which they purchased that a local developer wanted to buy.

The people of Escambia County need to pick the two most anti-gun commissioners on the board and drag them into the street and give them one bullet apiece. See if the rest of the commissioners pull that shit anymore after that.

Voting and petitions are ignored now. Violence will be the only thing these maggots understand and respond to. Get them before they get you, because they WILL get you. Why else would they need to disarm us if not to harm us?

FrommerStop · Mar 26, 2018

JBryan314 said:
The people of Escambia County need to pick the two most anti-gun commissioners on the board and drag them into the street and give them one bullet apiece. See if the rest of the commissioners pull that shit anymore after that.

Voting and petitions are ignored now. Violence will be the only thing these maggots understand and respond to. Get them before they get you, because they WILL get you. Why else would they need to disarm us if not to harm us?

Extreme, but there are some elements of truth. I am not the moderator, but I counsel caution on some statements. If you do run for office in Escambia County unpleasant things have happened to people, but still if enough people were determined, the voting booth is the only way. No dragging down streets will be happening anytime soon.

Snake-Eyes · Mar 30, 2018

Just saw this article on Liberty University in Virginia:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/03/2...ens-sophisticated-gun-range-for-students.html

So many positives...

Droshki · Mar 30, 2018

Leon County (Tallahassee area) isn't having any part of it:

Leon County School Board votes in favor of resolution against arming teachers

March 27, 2018

TALLAHASSEE Fla. (WCTV) -- Tuesday night, the Leon County School Board signed off on a resolution against arming teachers.

"I feel relieved," one teacher said.

The resolution was met with a standing ovation, with some board members saying the decision was simple.

Kinda surprising.

wildrider666 · Mar 30, 2018

So what goes through a anti-gun person's head when threatened with death but before the bullet does?

There have been several locations where "person's in authority" have said it will not allow its staff/teachers to be armed. They have just laid the foundation for Civil Suits if the devil incarnate arrives on a school campus under their jurisdiction.

I assume a sober BG would consider whether a homeowner is armed prior to entry. Leaving the answer as unknown may well provide some level of deterent. There are tens of thousands of anti-gun people who are very vocal and passionate about it BUT they don't put Gun Free Home signs in their yard or on their door. We know the reason why, it projects a message :EASY TARGET! That is exactly what these broadcasted decisions do.

Evil or crazy will strike again somewhere. There may be physical deterrents and an internal armed response or not. The only thing for certain is this conversation is not over regardless of current No Arming Staff decisions.

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