Arming Teachers..

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  • MAXman

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    Droshki

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    From the article:
    By opting out of arming teachers, the district will have to pay more than $1 million for an armed deputy at every school, something they say they don’t have the money for.

    Whatcha think? Increase Sales tax, gas tax or both?

    And that's one county, in one state. Like I said earlier, this could get pretty expensive, pretty quick

    As of 2016, there were 3,007 counties, 64 parishes, 18 organized boroughs, 11 census areas, 41 independent cities, and the District of Columbia for a total of 3,142 counties and county-equivalents in the United States.

    So $3142 million is $3.1 Billion, right?

    Per year. Huh.

    Can we just add it to the national debt?
     

    Snake-Eyes

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    And that's one county, in one state. Like I said earlier, this could get pretty expensive, pretty quick



    So $3142 million is $3.1 Billion, right?

    Per year. Huh.

    Can we just add it to the national debt?

    Your estimate is assuming each county has the same amount of schools as Leon County, but even if we say your estimate is accurate:

    It's a drop in the bucket of the hundreds of Billions WASTED on illegal immigrants every year.

    Shut off that hemmorage of funds and hire TEN well-trained security guards per school and we'd still be ahead...
     

    Pompnewbie

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    Your estimate is assuming each county has the same amount of schools as Leon County, but even if we say your estimate is accurate:

    It's a drop in the bucket of the hundreds of Billions WASTED on illegal immigrants every year.

    Shut off that hemmorage of funds and hire TEN well-trained security guards per school and we'd still be ahead...
    Maybe we could cut the funding for those evil gun totting people guarding our elected officials.. Im sure that could fund some

    Sent from my LGMS210 using Tapatalk
     

    Droshki

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    Maybe we could cut the funding for those evil gun totting people guarding our elected officials.. Im sure that could fund some

    Sent from my LGMS210 using Tapatalk

    Agreed. I'm not going to dig up the article right now, but Scott Pruitt just took his entire security detail to Europe, and a couple Disneyland vacations, and all of them flew first class, everywhere.
     

    Pompnewbie

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    Agreed. I'm not going to dig up the article right now, but Scott Pruitt just took his entire security detail to Europe, and a couple Disneyland vacations, and all of them flew first class, everywhere.
    No shit.. Take away that security blanket, let them get in a few "scary" situations they will be some 2A lovin individuals... Or quit and we can hire some that are.
    Bet they wouldn't talk so much shit if they know they are the ones with no defense.

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    Droshki

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    No shit.. Take away that security blanket, let them get in a few "scary" situations they will be some 2A lovin individuals... Or quit and we can hire some that are.
    Bet they wouldn't talk so much shit if they know they are the ones with no defense.

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    That was his exact excuse for flying everyone first class. It wasn't safe enough in coach.
     

    Droshki

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    Dozens of articles on it on the interwebs :

    https://www.google.com/search?ei=J9................mobile-gws-wiz-serp.5IjrBXyFFHc=


    new questions about the cost of Pruitt’s unprecedented EPA-funded security, and alleges that Pruitt has used his security detail while on non-official business, including trips home to Tulsa, Oklahoma, a family vacation to Disneyland and the Rose Bowl game.

    The EPA has cited security as the reason Pruitt springs for more leg room, early boarding, and free drinks. Since taking office, Pruitt has surrounded himself with a 24/7 security detail, built a secret phone booth at the EPA’s headquarters, and swept his office for surveillance bugs.

    Pruitt told Bloomberg that these steps were necessary because he faces “unprecedented” threats.

    But then he told the New Hampshire Union Leader Tuesday that he flies in first class to avoid uncivil interactions with other travelers.
     
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    Big Shrek

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    Is there anyone on here that would actually even seriously dispute that a random teacher with a concealed weapon has less then 1/10 of the tactical training, physiological profiling, resiliency training, and annual qualifications certifications ....then the cop that ultimately chose to put his personal safety and retirement plans ahead of defending the lives of the children he was specifically employed to protect, by any means necessary?

    Yep, I will.

    Most cops show up at the range the week before Quals, shoot for an hour or two, then are NEVER seen again until right before Quals again.
    Still, the last shooting resulted in the suspect being hit three times, none of the hits were even remotely life-threatening, and the skel
    sued ECSO for all he could get because all he was holding was a LIGHTER. Yeah, real effing tactical there...

    And lets talk about the COWARD COUNTY DEPUTIES who decided to STAY AWAY FROM THE SHOOTER and NOT ENGAUGE AT ALL!!
    100% guarantee that 4 NRA members with CC permits would have gone in where those dirtbag coward deputies stood down
    while kids were being killed. It's so nice that they were TRAINED TO GO IN, but failed to do so out of cowardice. So much for Training.
    AND WHERE IS THE OUTCRY FOR THAT?? 4 Deputies, one of which is THAT SCHOOL' Resource Officer COWER IN FEAR instead of going in
    and confronting the shooter, but not a peep is heard about that, except on Gun Forum Boards...

    The Gun Free Zone nonsense has lasted long enough, it was stupid when it was written, and it's still stupid now.
    You know what I did after Columbine?? I BOUGHT A HI-CAP PISTOL AND CARRIED IT AT COLLEGE. Didn't even bother with a CC permit.
    I figured, why bother, the gang members don't use CC permits either...plus, back then you would get into MORE trouble having a CC permit and
    carrying on campus than NOT having a permit and having to use it defensively. And quite frankly, figured that if I did have to use it to put down
    a school shooter, ain't a jury in the Southern USA going to convict someone for that.

    If someone has a CC permit, chances are very high are they've spent more time training and in range time than the average cop.
    Have some fun, go check the log books at the PPD range or the Santa Rosa Deputies range on E. Milton Road...most of the guys
    who show up regular are SWAT/other tactical members. Regular rank & file just don't show often. Kind of sad, when you think about it.

    Now, that would bring up, HOW OFTEN DOES THE AVERAGE CC PERMIT HOLDER GO TO THE RANGE??
    Well, among the folks who have CC's that I know of, usually 1-2 days a month.
    I tend to go 8-10 days a month, but also reload & am members of several shooting groups...SASS, IDPA, GSSF.
    Back before getting married, I'd be at the range 3 days a week, just because it was fun and could afford to!
    Wives are somewhat expensive...but mine likes to shoot too :)

    Fun thing about that, I know a Teacher who has a CC permit...and carries anyway.
    WHY? Because she wants to protect her students if any scumbags decide to get froggy.
    Of course, she's also a retired Marine, so if there's anyone qualified to absolutely kill the bleep out of a school shooter
    without hitting anyone else, with no other training than what she's already had, she's your gal.
    But now since Governor Scott has signed the law, she'll go thru the process and do it Legal. Which is preffered,
    but it shoulda happened years ago.

    Oh, and did you guys forget about the Escambia County School Security Personnel??
    Some of those have guns too...on campus...and they live there in those cute little double-wides.
    I've met a many of 'em over the years, and some of those folks would DEFINITELY come out blazing if a school shooter
    tried anything on their campus!! Some don't have guns, but they'd stick a knife in a perp real quick if they could get an angle.
    (Yeah, that old broad that can put a knife in a pie plate at 30 yards...Bet she was a circus performer! Y'all know who I'm talking about!)


    And then there are the Parents with CC Permits.
    Did y'all forget about us??
    Current Florida Law requires that CC permit holders have their weapon locked up in the vehicle while on school property,
    sans magazine if a magazine is present, or unloaded if a revolver.
    Let's be just brutally honest, NOBODY does that. Because in time of need, we're all gonna say it was locked up and we
    "removed it from the lockbox, loaded it, and ran in as quickly as we could to stop the shooter"...
    when in reality it never left our holster until it was time to hose up the bad guy.
    But don't worry, because nobody will EVER know we're carrying unless the squishy hits the fan.


    Got a lot of combat vets in the NWFL area. There's zero reason to stop those with CC Permits from doing what they do best.
    For that matter, we've also got a bunch of Combat-tried folks IN the service NOW in this area. No reason to keep them from
    protecting kids either.

    It's STUPID to say, We must pre-screen and select those who may be allowed to protect our kids.
    It should be, ALL those who have CC Permits May be allowed to Enter School Zones during a shooting event
    and they may engage the shooter AT WILL. PROTECTION OF THE KIDS FROM EVIL COMES FIRST!!
    .
     

    Pompnewbie

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    Yep, I will.

    Most cops show up at the range the week before Quals, shoot for an hour or two, then are NEVER seen again until right before Quals again.
    Still, the last shooting resulted in the suspect being hit three times, none of the hits were even remotely life-threatening, and the skel
    sued ECSO for all he could get because all he was holding was a LIGHTER. Yeah, real effing tactical there...

    And lets talk about the COWARD COUNTY DEPUTIES who decided to STAY AWAY FROM THE SHOOTER and NOT ENGAUGE AT ALL!!
    100% guarantee that 4 NRA members with CC permits would have gone in where those dirtbag coward deputies stood down
    while kids were being killed. It's so nice that they were TRAINED TO GO IN, but failed to do so out of cowardice. So much for Training.
    AND WHERE IS THE OUTCRY FOR THAT?? 4 Deputies, one of which is THAT SCHOOL' Resource Officer COWER IN FEAR instead of going in
    and confronting the shooter, but not a peep is heard about that, except on Gun Forum Boards...

    The Gun Free Zone nonsense has lasted long enough, it was stupid when it was written, and it's still stupid now.
    You know what I did after Columbine?? I BOUGHT A HI-CAP PISTOL AND CARRIED IT AT COLLEGE. Didn't even bother with a CC permit.
    I figured, why bother, the gang members don't use CC permits either...plus, back then you would get into MORE trouble having a CC permit and
    carrying on campus than NOT having a permit and having to use it defensively. And quite frankly, figured that if I did have to use it to put down
    a school shooter, ain't a jury in the Southern USA going to convict someone for that.

    If someone has a CC permit, chances are very high are they've spent more time training and in range time than the average cop.
    Have some fun, go check the log books at the PPD range or the Santa Rosa Deputies range on E. Milton Road...most of the guys
    who show up regular are SWAT/other tactical members. Regular rank & file just don't show often. Kind of sad, when you think about it.

    Now, that would bring up, HOW OFTEN DOES THE AVERAGE CC PERMIT HOLDER GO TO THE RANGE??
    Well, among the folks who have CC's that I know of, usually 1-2 days a month.
    I tend to go 8-10 days a month, but also reload & am members of several shooting groups...SASS, IDPA, GSSF.
    Back before getting married, I'd be at the range 3 days a week, just because it was fun and could afford to!
    Wives are somewhat expensive...but mine likes to shoot too :)

    Fun thing about that, I know a Teacher who has a CC permit...and carries anyway.
    WHY? Because she wants to protect her students if any scumbags decide to get froggy.
    Of course, she's also a retired Marine, so if there's anyone qualified to absolutely kill the bleep out of a school shooter
    without hitting anyone else, with no other training than what she's already had, she's your gal.
    But now since Governor Scott has signed the law, she'll go thru the process and do it Legal. Which is preffered,
    but it shoulda happened years ago.

    Oh, and did you guys forget about the Escambia County School Security Personnel??
    Some of those have guns too...on campus...and they live there in those cute little double-wides.
    I've met a many of 'em over the years, and some of those folks would DEFINITELY come out blazing if a school shooter
    tried anything on their campus!! Some don't have guns, but they'd stick a knife in a perp real quick if they could get an angle.
    (Yeah, that old broad that can put a knife in a pie plate at 30 yards...Bet she was a circus performer! Y'all know who I'm talking about!)


    And then there are the Parents with CC Permits.
    Did y'all forget about us??
    Current Florida Law requires that CC permit holders have their weapon locked up in the vehicle while on school property,
    sans magazine if a magazine is present, or unloaded if a revolver.
    Let's be just brutally honest, NOBODY does that. Because in time of need, we're all gonna say it was locked up and we
    "removed it from the lockbox, loaded it, and ran in as quickly as we could to stop the shooter"...
    when in reality it never left our holster until it was time to hose up the bad guy.
    But don't worry, because nobody will EVER know we're carrying unless the squishy hits the fan.


    Got a lot of combat vets in the NWFL area. There's zero reason to stop those with CC Permits from doing what they do best.
    For that matter, we've also got a bunch of Combat-tried folks IN the service NOW in this area. No reason to keep them from
    protecting kids either.

    It's STUPID to say, We must pre-screen and select those who may be allowed to protect our kids.
    It should be, ALL those who have CC Permits May be allowed to Enter School Zones during a shooting event
    and they may engage the shooter AT WILL. PROTECTION OF THE KIDS FROM EVIL COMES FIRST!!
    .
    A-freaking-men.. Couldn't have said it better myself

    Sent from my LGMS210 using Tapatalk
     

    FrommerStop

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    One word of caution for Big Shrek and others that do plan to go in on their own. You will be in more danger of being shot by responding law enforcement then the murderers killing their victims. I am not saying do not go in, but go doing the most that you can not to get shot by someone that is after the maniac or terrorist also.
    Working by yourself also means you have no one to cover your back.
    In that walmart shooting out west not too long ago a CCW carrier went in by himself and got shot from behind by the perp's girl friend that was hanging back and following her significant other. l
     

    wildrider666

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    Florida SB 7030 is going to Gov for signature.

    FL Governments rush to pass additionam measures to protect schools/students, but anti gun dems castrated it with a provision that prohibited "armed classroom teachers" from participating. That left admin, janitors and kitichen staff as a small pool of potential volunteers. This Bill eliminates the restriction on teachers. Dumb ass moms demand action and students demand action who are on the loosing end of their arguements want Gov to Veto it, they prefer schools not be proteted at "with a first line of defense" and everybody loose there gun Rights instead.

    https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/florida-governor-veto-legislation-arm-teachers/
     

    JBryan314

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    This bill and the “expansion” are a damn farce, a trick, smoke and mirrors. If any school staff are to be armed, it first requires the school board approve use of the “Guardian Program” in the district. Let me promise you this: With this expansion, we will have the same number of school districts approve the program as we had before.

    That number is zero.

    There will be no school board in the state that approves this.

    Even if they did, the staff members have to pass a psychological exam administered by LE (give me a fucking break) and then complete 144 hours of training.

    I’ll promise you that Florida school staff members who carry in schools statewide will number zero.

    The Florida Republicans allowed this original bill to pass with a bumpstock ban, an age limit increase to 21 and mandatory waiting periods. That’s what the Democrats got, and what did we get? A scam. An “armed teachers, but not really” scam bill.

    But I’m supposed to keep voting for this God awful Republican Party of lying, invertebrate scum?
     
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    wildrider666

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    This bill and the “expansion” are a damn farce, a trick, smoke and mirrors. If any school staff are to be armed, it first requires the school board approve use of the “Guardian Program” in the district. Let me promise you this: With this expansion, we will have the same number of school districts approve the program as we had before.

    That number is zero.

    There will be no school board in the state that approves this.

    Even if they did, the staff members have to pass a psychological exam administered by LE (give me a fucking break) and then complete 144 hours of training.

    I’ll promise you that Florida school staff members who carry in schools statewide will number zero.

    The Florida Republicans allowed this original bill to pass with a bumpstock ban, an age limit increase to 21 and mandatory waiting periods. That’s what the Democrats got, and what did we get? A scam. An “armed teachers, but not really” scam bill.

    But I’m supposed to keep voting for this God awful Republican Party of lying, invertebrate scum?

    ZERO? Maybe, maybe not. If parents want their kids protected at a higher level and teachers/Staff want to orotect themselves and students: Entire School Boards can be VOTED OUT OF OFFICE! We know current RSOs/unarmed security can FAIL. If another school shooting happens in a FL District where full advantage of the Law was refused, there will be hell to pay.

    I recommended authority be vested in individual staff and teachers upon successfull completion of the training program, and no requirement for them to notify their respective Schools/Districts. Also no prejudicial, derogatory or administrative/punitive actions may taken against participating staff/teachers. State of Fl should also a CFWL free of all charges and fees including renewals for the duration of their employment. I'd give the a $30 a month gun/ammo/training allowance too! These thing were probably put right in the trash can.

    "In anticipation of passage, school employees in 40 of Florida’s 67 counties already enrolled in or planned to take the 144-hour course, a spokesman for the Speaker of the House said. Some counties have resolved not to participate in the Guardian program."

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...m-themselves-under-new-gun-bill-idUSKCN1S74GZ
     

    FNHman

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    Everyone should be able to defend themselves. Arm everybody who wants to be armed "gun/knife/taser/hammer/slap jack/machete/etc pick your weapon of choice based on comfort level and age" and things will work themselves out in less than a decade but its going to be a bloody mess till then.
     

    IronBeard

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    OK, schools are safe now. So when do we roll the age to buy long guns back to 18 and repeal the FL red flag laws?
     

    MauserLarry

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    Wow! 144 hours is a long time which will probably be unpaid for the people involved. It speaks volumes for the dedication of the people that would go through this.
     

    JBryan314

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    ZERO? Maybe, maybe not. If parents want their kids protected at a higher level and teachers/Staff want to orotect themselves and students: Entire School Boards can be VOTED OUT OF OFFICE! We know current RSOs/unarmed security can FAIL. If another school shooting happens in a FL District where full advantage of the Law was refused, there will be hell to pay.

    I recommended authority be vested in individual staff and teachers upon successfull completion of the training program, and no requirement for them to notify their respective Schools/Districts. Also no prejudicial, derogatory or administrative/punitive actions may taken against participating staff/teachers. State of Fl should also a CFWL free of all charges and fees including renewals for the duration of their employment. I'd give the a $30 a month gun/ammo/training allowance too! These thing were probably put right in the trash can.

    "In anticipation of passage, school employees in 40 of Florida’s 67 counties already enrolled in or planned to take the 144-hour course, a spokesman for the Speaker of the House said. Some counties have resolved not to participate in the Guardian program."

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...m-themselves-under-new-gun-bill-idUSKCN1S74GZ

    Today the number stands at zero. And we can have all the volunteers wish to participate, but they have to have something to participate in. If the school board doesn’t approve of the program FIRST (and despite having almost a year to do it, zero have approved), then the volunteers will not be able to do it.

    This is all beside the point of what I’m saying. Your Republican Party gave the Democrats almost everything they wanted in exchange for ONE thing, and then allowed the bill to contain such language as to make it highly prohibitively difficult to even participate, and allowed school boards, which are nearly always leftist bureaucracies, to dictate who carries.

    Why would your party cave like that and allow our state government to pass three blatant infringements on our 2A rights, those being a ban on an accessory (bump stocks), an age restriction of 21 years old and mandatory waiting periods on all gun purchases?

    Why would they do that and why do you Florida Republican voters fall for the lie and accept that treatment?
     

    JBryan314

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    OK, schools are safe now. So when do we roll the age to buy long guns back to 18 and repeal the FL red flag laws?


    Never. Once the Democrats get something, it never rolls back. It’s a ratcheting action. Everything the Republicans are “given” is back on the table for debate the next session.
     
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