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"HARDENING" SCHOOLS, Structural and Staff deterrents: Good or just feel good action?

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  • wildrider666

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    What does School Hardening really mean? Its being touted as a major deterrent, to reduce the effects or stop a mass murderers at Schools. Everybody would love to have 100% safety for students and Staff. It would look something like this:
    clinton-prison.jpg

    Thats actually a prision with security checking ever thing and everyone that comes or goes, monitors and patrols the outside and attempts to control everything on the inside. Still have assaults, rapes, murder, drugs and weapons inside.
    Sure it full of criminals but it only takes one person with intent to do bad deeds.

    If your going to harden your schools defenses/response, you need to understand the Threats, then plan to neutralize or reduce its impact. Is this going to stop a Lanza? A better planned Columbine duo, a sophisticated planner like Paddock or a truck running through the playground?

    The Gov increased security from TSA check point inward but we still have attacks. In terminals and outside Air Terminals.
    Those with criminal intent, may be deterred an just go for softer areas where specific or general targets congregate, wouldn't the same potential exist outside the school? Gun Free School Zones (1000 feet) doesn't allow Mom, Dad or bodyguard to legally carry a firearm in these soft areas.

    Firearms. We heard some schools would allow SRO's to have "AR's in their vehicles on school grounds. Another district was considering to allow one to be secured in a container in a locked office. A remote but large school district in Idaho started arming Staff months ago due to long delays in LE response times.

    Arming and properly training school staff volunteers is the most effective deterrent and response. It is not static defense and very likely more cost effective. Screen, select, background check and train unpaid volunteer Ret/Fmr Mil/LE from the Community! The Achilles Heel is Class Trips/Sporting events that cross State lines where CCW reciprocity does not exist.
    Thats right, no protection if they go to the Nations Capital.

    Is School Hardening just another knee jerk bandaid like the push for more gun control?
    Whats next when that bandaid is torn off by another event

    The Human factor+- Policy FAILED with SRO, local LE (& Chief) and the FBI. Can that be fixed 100%?

    The School System FAILED, covering up Crimes with the support of local LE in pursuit of higher funding and Grants based on lower student criminality and arrest statistics. These young criminals didn't fall through the crack, they were shielded!
    Someday we will see the School Systems Disciplinary Record on Cruz.
     

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    ccather

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    Interesting points. Here are some additional thoughts to add.

    A school is often not a single building, but a collection of non-connecting buildings. Some of these building are portables (essentially double wide mobile homes). In this case, the goal is hardening a campus.

    The staff can be thought of as "sensors" communicating problems to administration. If a situation is happening, communication to administration can be slowed as an intercom button must be found. If the teacher is outside, there is no button to press.

    The first room attacked by surprise will likely have a poor defensive response because of the time needed to transition from teacher to defender. Other rooms, hearing the initial attack will have more time to prepare a defense. Early threat identification is helpful in mounting a more effective defense of all the students.
     

    Viking1204

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    Hardening a school could be as simple as reducing the number of entrance and exit points. As it stands now most schools have several doors opening to the outside that are not secured.
     

    wildrider666

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    The location (random or motive driven) and suprise (time of attack) are advantages for the attacker(s). Intel/Tips have allowed preemptive actions/arrests. The Parkland event was a dismal and unacceptable intel failure to investigate, evaluate and direct timely action. Schools have applied a Zero Tolerance Policies (some to the point of obsurdity.

    No school is too small for a planned attack. Case in point being the one room Amish school house in Lancaster, PA. in 2006. Brought gear to secure victims, barricade and molest. Released adults, infants and boys.

    Nobody here will recall the elementary school bombing that killed 38 children and 7 adults in Bath, Mich. There have been at least 11 school bombings. Will school hardening stop this?
     

    wildrider666

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    Hardening a school could be as simple as reducing the entrance and exit points. As it stands now most schools have several doors opening to the outside that are not secured.

    Those are good things to do but that leaves window entry, and would not stop a accomplice (with knowledge of plan or duped) from opening a external door or window. Chains and ocks on doors, bars on windows are fine unti there is a fire. Who is checking/supervising/ supply delivery trucks at back doors?
     

    Viking1204

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    I agree, just limiting entry points wouldn't solve the problem but it's a start. The harder you make it the less likely someone is going to try. Limit the entry points and increase security presence on the grounds of the school, do something. Something is better than the nothing most schools are doing now.
     

    wildrider666

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    I agree that something structural and several armed Staff (LE or others qualified to a proficiency standard) will help. We must also expect our limited applications to be breached or circumvented at some place, at some time. Just like dealing with terrorists: were need to stop them 100% of the time, they only need to succeed once.

    Then we have soft targets where students or people congregate, the location name changes to school football game, school bus, Prom, mall, theater, club, market or sidewalk. Body and injury counts will fall where they may. If a BG gets to the target area, the community and LE intel has failed. The target area and support are purely defensive (may stop or kill BG) until potential victims overwhelm the BG or a counter offensive hunts down the BG and terminates the threat.

    The Justice system will handle leftovers. LE/Agengies will investigate and talking heads and politicians will only demonized the tool used if its a firearm. Planes, toxic chemical agents, vehicles, bombs, pressure cookers, knives all get a pass after the initial curiosity is over. Commercial aircraft, TSA and Gov buildings beefed up security, same with some events. However, no Laws were changed regarding the lawful use of those tools, products or materials "as a preventive measure to stop a similar type attack". It doesn't matter if the mass murderer is dead, or convicted and justice is served for all practical purposes. The only tool ever and consistently demonized: is firearms. Theiy are not after Justice, they want total civilian disarmament. They are happy to achieve it one step at a time, while working toward their end goal.
     

    Mouser

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    In my opinion, there are several breakdowns that allowed this crime, and others like it, to happen. If I was at work and attacked this problem like a reliability issue and broke out my fishbone diagrams, 5-why's, ps^2 etc....I think it likely that there would be MUCH attention aimed at the people, systems, structures and processes that were ineffective at halting this guy....he gave law enforcement and leadership all of the queues they needed to intervene....doesn't mean schools don't need 'hardening' as I think there are a handful of low cost options that could make shooting up a school not the path of least resistance. There would be layers of redundant stopgaps that would come out of it. There would be an audit process to check the health of the system with appropriate negative consequences for those law enforcement, leaders and schools that failed to meet the minimum standard....we have many, many examples of this in our world but govt seems to exempt themselves....maybe a little know fact...municipalities do not have to conform to OSHA safety standards....a perfect example. So the dysfunctional and inept govt F....s up AGAIN and their answer is taking gun rights away and spending money like a drunk sailor all the while ignoring the man in the mirror.

    Bottom line is most, if not all, of these incidents are preventable and yet were not. The one, and only one that comes to mind, that the shooter didn't telegraph his intentions was the Vegas shooter...and that one went strangely silent...too silent....maybe he did telegraph his intentions but it has not been revealed. Also, notice how much more passion and coverage over the FL shooting than the Vegas shooting which was a much larger event...and seemingly more random....things that make me go 'hmmm'.
     

    Ross7

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    ...the Vegas shooter...and that one went strangely silent...too silent....maybe he did telegraph his intentions but it has not been revealed. Also, notice how much more passion and coverage over the FL shooting than the Vegas shooting which was a much larger event...and seemingly more random....things that make me go 'hmmm'.

    I was talking to someone today about how the Vegas shooting was different from other mass shootings. I think the Parkland shooting has evoked more passion and coverage because the victims were almost all children whereas mostly adults were victims in Vegas.

    In trying to be fair to the media regarding their coverage of Vegas, seems there just hasn't been anything more for them to report on. However in my darker more cynical moments, I wonder if lack of media followup has anything to do with the probable right leaning make-up of the country music crowd.
     

    fl57caveman

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    , they want total civilian disarmament. They are happy to achieve it one step at a time, while working toward their end goal.


    this^^


    while we are busy dividing among factions, pit against each other, tptb are whittling away at the base of the tree of freedom....keeping their eye on the goal
     

    ccather

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    Addressing the security issue will take time and lots of money.

    Parents can take immediate action if they are concerned about their child's safety. Escambia County School District offers free virtual school also known as online learning. The county will even supply a computer. The students do not need to report to a building to attend school. This is a growing program statewide. Students can transfer from a brick and mortar school to virtual and back if they choose. There is even a County run virtual high school that issues a diploma. The students learn wherever there is Internet access, 24/7. This option is not for every student, but some students thrive learning online.

    The times are changing. In the 1800's, children had to travel to the education and many still do. With high speed communication, the education can now travel to them.
     

    wildrider666

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    I read the Bill passed but the gun grabbers got what they could: then added an Ammendment THAT BARS TEACHERS FROM THE ARMED STAFF PROGRAM, WHOS PRIMARY DUTY IS CLASSROOM TEACHING!

    BIG LOUD WTF! This means no armed defense in any classrooms where the majority of students time is spent.

    Another bait and switch piece of gun control legislation. They were never going to let teachers protect themselves or their students (can't have guns near kids EVER!). That potential "volunteer pool" sure got a hell of a lot smaller. I hope Gov Scott see it for what it is and vetos it.

    What a pack of lying and deceitful politicans only worrying about the next election.
     
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    Zeroed in

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    It's all about the money. It'll boil down to private security firms will protest and get a huge $$ contract.
    The news the other morning had some company that developed a bulletproof classroom door, priced at a mere 3 or $4,000 each.
    I'm sure it's a good idea, But what about the Walls? :doh:
    I guess the classroom size should be reduced to about 3, so they and the teacher can hide behind the door.
     
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