Jeb21 said:

At this point you are just trolling. You started this discussion by saying that Russian covert agents were just exercising their First Amendment rights. A silly argument that put you in a box.

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No, what I said was "So its okay for other law breakers like illegal aliens just not Russians?" This references the disparity between your application of Law (All) and Rights (All). I say prosecute them all, no free pass for the illegal aliens. You and dski just gotta twist and distort everything. If your not saying exactly/quoting what I stated: your lying.

Comparisons: There are Idictments and then there are hard criminal statistics. There is no comparison on any scale that would not show the impact of illegal alien crime is worse. How many illegal votes did the russians cast? How many illegal votes were cast by persons in the U.S.?

Acting like the U.S. is without sin casting stones over Russia's meddling is laffable. The U.S. has a long history of forced regime change where the U.S. has interests. The U.S. wasn't very picky with which puppet they put or "assisted" in gaining power either. Some was done overtly and others covertly. The U.S. does this routinely (still doing it), so why is the sky falling because some political and social division gets pushed our way tied to the elections? Let the hammer of justice fall (in absentia, didn't physically catch any russians).

You guys act like a dog in heat every time the word Russia is mentioned and a rabid dog when Trump's name s dropped. You just cant help but inserting political bullshit in damn near every thread you post on. I recommended you start your own threads for things you want to politically bash on. Yet you both keep derailing and I take the bait and I regret my part in the derailments. That covers it from my end. I'm done with this trainwreck,

This is the stuff you get after the hitlery/obum Reset. Hell, they couldn't even get the printed words on the red button right!








I gave you an opportunity to fix it but you continue to lie. Got your bro droshki tag teaming it too. Your both lying. The proof is you never found a Post with anything near the lies you both weave, accusing me of saying such statements: OR YOU WOULD HAVE QUOTED AND ATTACHED IT.

An interesting blog/opinion piece:

http://blog.suarezinternational.com/2018/02/americas-new-normal.html

wildrider666 said:

Acting like the U.S. is without sin casting stones over Russia's meddling is laffable. The U.S. has a long history of forced regime change where the U.S. has interests. The U.S. wasn't very picky with which puppet they put or "assisted" in gaining power either. Some was done overtly and others covertly. The U.S. does this routinely (still doing it), so why is the sky falling because some political and social division gets pushed our way tied to the elections? Let the hammer of justice fall (in absentia, didn't physically catch any russians).


I gave you an opportunity to fix it but you continue to lie. Got your bro droshki tag teaming it too. Your both lying. The proof is you never found a Post with anything near the lies you both weave, accusing me of saying such statements: OR YOU WOULD HAVE QUOTED AND ATTACHED IT.

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So now it is my job to help you remember what you wrote, and if I don't do that then I am the liar? Strange logic. If you cannot keep track of your own arguments, that is your problem.

Your latest argument is that it is ok for Russia to meddle in our elections because we have a history of meddling in other country's elections? Seriously? This is not about abstract principles of right and wrong (although I am sure that Putin come down on the Wrong side of the ledger) this is about us (the Us) and them (our enemies). Russia is our enemy and has been since 1945. Our enemies have messed with our elections by using covert agents to manipulate the American public. They will mess with the next elections - - - and on point with this thread they are actively trying to inflame public opinion regarding this most recent school shooing.

I know we don't agree on most things but we can agree that Russians actively engaging in propaganda campaigns in the US is a bad thing, We can agree that Russian's trying to sway public opinion regarding gun control is a bad thing, right?

Snake-Eyes said:

An interesting blog/opinion piece:

http://blog.suarezinternational.com/2018/02/americas-new-normal.html

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This is a great quote

"Today, EVERY MAN IS A COUNTER TERRORIST"

I also like and believe in this line of reasoning

"Resist the temptation to leave the real sized fighting gun at home and go forth with some “civilian friendly metro sexual” pistol. Anyone can carry a full sized fighting pistol with a little fore thought and care in dressing for the weapon."

I typically carry the gun that I compete with. Lately, that has been a full sized Beretta 92d or more recently a Beretta Px4 Storm - full sized.

Suarez is a wonderful spokesman for gun rights and basic common sense. Thanks for posting the link

So there is a bipartisan bill that will increase the background check requirements

"The bipartisan measure is narrowly focused on background checks; it would require states and federal agencies to produce plans to report offenses that would bar people from passing a check needed to purchase a firearm.

It also reiterates that federal agencies must report all violations to the National Instant Criminal Background Check system and creates new financial incentives for states to report "

I have never quit practicing what I learned as a lad in the boy scouts.

be prepared.

The background checks "tweaks" is a slippery slope, too. We could easily get back to the realm of: "if your name appears on any of these lists, no gun for you. Oh yeah, don't you worry your pretty little head about who decides what names go on the lists... We aren't banning guns. We're just looking out for what's best for you. We're just thinking of the children...."

It's all still weak-minded short-sighted thinking, to go after the tools used, instead of tackling the fundamental problem of the perpetrator and how soft a target we gave him.

Other then a satisfying their curiosity and simple acknowlegement, they never really lay the full blame on the murderer, its always blamed on the horse he rode in on. This is because they use the act of murder and the victims as tools to push an agenda against the device but only when firearms are utilized. Never heard a call for pressure cooker bans, restrictions or sale/possession loopholes.

FrankT said:

Fake news!

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No one saw the WEAR TV 3 gal yesterday with the "spokesperson" of the shooting vigil last night... Typical liberalism at its finest... throw lies to the public while a news channel does ZERO fact checking and eat it up like a kid on a big ole piece of chocolate cake!!! Ole gal said you can buy guns on line with no background check and the same at gun shows... Dang, I've been cheated all these years and want my $$$ back... Scary out there fellas that this feels like more of a turn for the left and they will get "something" outta this... Only because the weak sheep who follow!!!

I watched the piece Jason. I damn near threw up. I hollared at the TV and my wife heard me in the back yard.
A really sad piece of EXTREMELY FAKE NEWS.
And your right . . . unfortunately . . . "they WILL get something outta this". Could be just the start. SAD !! ---- SAWMAN

they regurgitate whatever CNN leads with, 18 school shootings in 43 days is totally bogus,
yet that figure is tossed out by all..as fact

Liberalism is a very hard thing to understand. They as a group sure aren't very liberal it seems that they are willing to force their beliefs on every one no matter what the cost. Just look at the countless hours they spend googling and spewing their spin on every subject. It's for sure they don't have time to do much else. It truly amazing that they think they are going to change any conservative persons opinion. They are a pest that must be tolerated much like people that try to force their religion on other people.

A teacher in Florida had one of the best responses to the school shooting in Parkland last week – a Facebook post that recognized that there is something sick in our society that has nothing to do with AR-15s, the NRA, or the Republican Party.

“Okay, I’ll be the bad guy and say what no one else is brave enough to say, but wants to say,” wrote Kelly Guthrie Raley, a Teacher of the Year winner from Eustis, Florida. “Until we, as a country, are willing to get serious and talk about mental health issues, lack of available care for the mental health issues, lack of discipline in the home, horrendous lack of parental support when the schools are trying to control horrible behavior at school (oh no! Not MY KID.

What did YOU do to cause my kid to react that way?), lack of moral values, and yes, I’ll say it – violent video games that take away all sensitivity to ANY compassion for others’ lives – as well as reality TV that makes it commonplace for people to constantly scream up in each others’ faces and not value any other person but themselves, we will have a gun problem in school.”


more....


http://www.fixthisnation.com/conser...nse-to-school-shooting-is-the-best-weve-read/

So is looks like the police had been called the shooter's home about 30 times in the seven years leading up to the shooting.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/16/us/florida-shooter-cruz-records-police-calls-to-home-invs/index.html (I know it is CNN but get over it-they are the ones breaking this story)

Here is a quote from a different article

the nature of the emergencies at his Parkland home included “mentally ill person,” “child/elderly abuse,” “domestic disturbance” and “missing person,” KTLA reported.

And a schoolmate, Brody Speno, told the network that cops were called to Cruz’s home “almost every other week.”

“Something wasn’t right about him,” Speno told CNN. “He was off.”

Speno said he knew Cruz from elementary school and described him as “an evil kid” who was “always getting in trouble.”

Cruz — who posted images of himself on Instagram posing with guns and knives — has confessed to killing 17 people at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland and made an alarming online comment about a recent mass shooting.

“Man I can do so much better,” he wrote.

Here is an interesting audio report (only 5 minutes long) suggesting using a restraining order to try to stop someone like Cruz from getting a gun. The good part is with a restraining order there is a hearing and an opportunity to be heard by a judge. No secret list compiled by unknown persons for unspecified reasons.

https://www.npr.org/2018/02/19/587025021/politics-in-the-news-gun-violence-restraining-order

NO.

So, a single local judge gets to decide if you can keep your guns, after someone files a restraining order? They used to "allow" the local senior LEO to have effectively a veto-authority for NFA items. That finally got squashed due to demonstrated "inconsistencies".

There are already avenues to deal with people who might be "a threat to themselves or others".

What about the criminals who don't own weapons legally? Who cares if a restraining order is against them?

This is yet another "solution" from those who think that giving up "just a little liberty" is ok.
No! My rights are not available to infringe upon simply because these sheep are looking for an easy scapegoat.

Here:

http://www.rotorandwing.com/2007/03/01/the-military-spin-its-all-in-the-training/#.WoxpiEFMGaM

It's just a quick description of a military aviation training sortie and how a debrief is important.

In plain language, you make your money during a debrief to actually LEARN from all of your efforts during an event (training mission, whatever).

Debrief focus points (DFPs) get analyzed. Contributing Factors (CFs) are brain-stormed and listed. They get kicked through, and eventually, you find one of those CFs is the Root Cause (RC). The thing that, had it not occurred, the DFP event probably would've gone another way entirely. So the instructor then teaches an Instructional Fix (IF) to the students on how to avoid that RC (and maybe some of those CFs, too) in the future. Learning occurs. Go home; reset.

This analysis is what's missing from these events. People focus on the bright shiny contributing factors and miss the Root Cause.

"The criminal had a gun" is a contributing factor to why those 17 victims died, but it isn't the Root Cause. If the criminal was denied a gun, then he could've just as easily used another weapon (vehicle, explosives, etc). The Root Cause will still be debatable, and without all of the facts, we're guessing.

However, I know it's not the gun's fault, and I damn sure don't want a Libtard's "Instructional Fix" for that...

Here is what I was talking about with respect to Russia screwing with our gun rights:

SAN FRANCISCO — One hour after news broke about the school shooting in Florida last week, Twitter accounts suspected of having links to Russia released hundreds of posts taking up the gun control debate.

The accounts addressed the news with the speed of a cable news network. Some adopted the hashtag #guncontrolnow. Others used #gunreformnow and #Parklandshooting. Earlier on Wednesday, before the mass shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Fla., many of those accounts had been focused on the investigation by the special counsel Robert S. Mueller III into Russian meddling in the 2016 presidential election.

“This is pretty typical for them, to hop on breaking news like this,” said Jonathon Morgan, chief executive of New Knowledge, a company that tracks online disinformation campaigns. “The bots focus on anything that is divisive for Americans. Almost systematically.”


One of the most divisive issues in the nation is how to handle guns, pitting Second Amendment advocates against proponents of gun control. And the messages from these automated accounts, or bots, were designed to widen the divide and make compromise even more difficult.

Any news event — no matter how tragic — has become fodder to spread inflammatory messages in what is believed to be a far-reaching Russian disinformation campaign. The disinformation comes in various forms: conspiracy videos on YouTube, fake interest groups on Facebook, and armies of bot accounts that can hijack a topic or discussion on Twitter.

The researchers said they had watched as the bots began posting about the Parkland shooting shortly after it happened.

Snake-Eyes said:

NO.

So, a single local judge gets to decide if you can keep your guns, after someone files a restraining order? They used to "allow" the local senior LEO to have effectively a veto-authority for NFA items. That finally got squashed due to demonstrated "inconsistencies".

There are already avenues to deal with people who might be "a threat to themselves or others".

What about the criminals who don't own weapons legally? Who cares if a restraining order is against them?

This is yet another "solution" from those who think that giving up "just a little liberty" is ok.
No! My rights are not available to infringe upon simply because these sheep are looking for an easy scapegoat.

Click to expand...

The guy that proposed the idea is a senior writer for the National Review. The idea is the find a way to limit access to firearm for guys like Cruz who are a definite threat but who have not been actually institutionalized. Here is a quote from the article:

"The Florida school shooting has again ignited debate over gun control. David Greene talks to David French, senior writer at the National Review, about the idea of a gun-violence restraining order.

It involves something known as a gun violence restraining order. And basically, a person close to a troubled individual could call for a court order that lets law enforcement temporarily take away that person's gun rights. And David French joins us this morning. Welcome to the program.

DAVID FRENCH: Thanks so much for having me. I appreciate it.

GREENE: So why do you think this idea has a chance to work?

FRENCH: Well, it has a chance to work because it's individualized. It's based on a person's behavior. And it provides due process. And so we have this paradox in this country right now where gun violence has been decreasing and - as far, far below the numbers of 25 years ago, even though guns are more accessible than they've ever been. But at the same time that general gun violence is decreasing, these spree killings, these mass killings - as everyone has been able to see - have been increasing and increasing in particular since the Columbine massacre.

And what you see time and again with these spree killings, these things that are increasing, is there are - the killers kind of radiate warning signs time and time again. And this is also the case in suicides. People are often giving off warning signs well in advance. And the - there is very little - very few tools available to family members, to people close to those who are exhibiting these warning signs to do anything about it."

****************************

This guy is definitely not a liberal. He is trying to address the mental health issues rather than simply trying take away gun rights. Lets face it, we are just one more school shooting away from "an assault weapons" ban. We need to come up with some positive plan of action. The status quo will not do.

Snake-Eyes said:

Here:

http://www.rotorandwing.com/2007/03/01/the-military-spin-its-all-in-the-training/#.WoxpiEFMGaM

It's just a quick description of a military aviation training sortie and how a debrief is important.

In plain language, you make your money during a debrief to actually LEARN from all of your efforts during an event (training mission, whatever).

Debrief focus points (DFPs) get analyzed. Contributing Factors (CFs) are brain-stormed and listed. They get kicked through, and eventually, you find one of those CFs is the Root Cause (RC). The thing that, had it not occurred, the DFP event probably would've gone another way entirely. So the instructor then teaches an Instructional Fix (IF) to the students on how to avoid that RC (and maybe some of those CFs, too) in the future. Learning occurs. Go home; reset.

This analysis is what's missing from these events. People focus on the bright shiny contributing factors and miss the Root Cause.

"The criminal had a gun" is a contributing factor to why those 17 victims died, but it isn't the Root Cause. If the criminal was denied a gun, then he could've just as easily used another weapon (vehicle, explosives, etc). The Root Cause will still be debatable, and without all of the facts, we're guessing.

However, I know it's not the gun's fault, and I damn sure don't want a Libtard's "Instructional Fix" for that...

Click to expand...

Good article, thanks for posting it