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Another School shooting....this one in FL

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  • bobinbusan

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    Guess they'll be trying to pass a bill that you have to be 21 years old to sign up for the service?
     

    Jeb21

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    To be able to get ANY liability insurance, you're going to have to demonstrate standardized training. In order to have to have standardized training, you're going to have to have standardized weapons. In order to have standardized weapons, you're going to have to issue the weapons. In order to issue the weapons, you're going to have to have a procurement contract. In order to have a procurement contract for weapons, you'll need funding.

    And then within a few short years, Erik Prince (if hes not in jail yet by then) and his sister Betsy Devoss, will have a "Blackwater" type school protection contract in place nationwide.

    Then things will really start getting expensive.

    Yea and excellent point. However, if we are dealing with a public school, most states including Florida, have some variation of sovereign immunity will reduces the maximum amount of recovery and should give the insurance company underwriters a warm and fuzzy feeling about writing the policy because of the cap on the financial risk. Add to that the high number of schools and the low risk of a claim being filed for a guard or teacher accidental or intentional shooting and these factors should actually encourage insurance participation. Finally, most public schools are already paying a premium for basic liability insurance and other, armed guards might increase the premium a bit but not by too much I would hope.
     

    Droshki

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    Good point about the liability cap though. I forgot about it. IMO it shouldn't exist though. But it does. You're right. I wonder if it includes contract security? IANAL
     

    Droshki

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    So, I'm eating lunch, but roughly speaking, 50,000 schools, X $200,000 each, per year for guards (gotta figure in liability insurance, training, health insurance, uniforms, extra coverage for sick days, etc..... Comes out to $1 trillion a year.

    And again, that's before the Erik Princes of the world get involved. Costs would easily quintuple once this became recognized as a monetization opportunity.. Look how much we paid private armies in Iraq, Afghanistan, and other places.
     

    MAXman

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    So, I'm eating lunch, but roughly speaking, 50,000 schools, X $200,000 each, per year for guards (gotta figure in liability insurance, training, health insurance, uniforms, extra coverage for sick days, etc..... Comes out to $1 trillion a year.

    And again, that's before the Erik Princes of the world get involved. Costs would easily quintuple once this became recognized as a monetization opportunity.. Look how much we paid private armies in Iraq, Afghanistan, and other places.

    I honestly wouldn't worry about it ever happening, but good luck arguing cost. If anyone actually cared about that the pentagon would be able to account for the billions(or was it trillions?) of dollars they misplace every 10 years or so, federal gas tax would reflect inflation, I could go on but I think you get the point.
     

    MAXman

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    Liberals scream bloody murder at the reduction of welfare giveaways but suddenly become fiscally responsible over school safety. Amazing......

    If you're referring specifically to Droshki, I can say he has consistently hated bottomless blanket spending by the federal government for at least the last 3 years.
     

    Jeb21

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    So a trillion dollars is a heck of a lot more than I guessed. That would be a non-starter.

    How about the idea that we can get a restraining order on folks who threaten violence - it is a bit of an expansion of the current law but not by much. Restraining order would block purchase new guns and require the restrained party to part ways with his existing guns for the duration of the order.
     

    bohica793

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    Simplest solution -- eliminate the ban on concealed carry on all public property including schools. Allow qualified and permitted individuals (including teachers and administrative staff) to carry. Clearly advertised the fact that the property is defended. The deterrent effect alone will eliminate 99% of any attempts. When was the last shooting that was not in a "Gun Free" zone?
     

    MAXman

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    Is the 50,000 schools Florida or nation wide? Cus honesty idgaf what California or Kentucky does or doesn't do.

    I think the cheapest solution is just allow facially and staff to legally carry if they have a permit. Even at th Florida state level, of that happened today huff post and salon would have an article out in an hour, the Russian bots would follow with twitter and meme flood campaign, and within a week everyone with a smart phone would have heard how Florida is passing out uzis to teachers.

    Wouldn't cost the government much of anything.
     

    Droshki

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    There were 98,271 public elementary and secondary schools nationwide in 2013-2014
     

    Jeb21

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    Yea but I was looking at this from a national standpoint.
     

    MAXman

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    I think that if we insist on change on the national/federal level, it's gonna prevent anything from ever happening.
    When it comes to assault weapon magazine bans, cool, I'm grateful, keep hoping congress will rescue you(because they won't).
    But sometimes, I think it's better to think on the state level. Just like it's easier to enact gun control on a state/local level(California, NY, Chicago, D.C.), it should be also easier to enact school security/preventative investigations/etc.
    plus, we aren't stuffing our wants down other people's throats. California wants a 3 day wait, and one gun per month limit. Let's say they also want no firearms on a campus, including law enforcement(let's just say). Okay cool, have at it, just don't make it a national issue. Then, when Florida decides they want better access control and allow faculty to carry, and Californians have a fit, we can say"hey guys, you do your thing and let us do ours" and we aren't hypocrites.
     

    fl57caveman

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    I think one security guard is probably never going to be enough. After all they are responsible for security within the school as well as security against outside threats. Also we don't want to give an attacker even odds, so a 2:1 or better ratio against a school shooter would be my goal.

    Of course funding for this would be extremely expensive, but probably less expensive than building a wall on the Mexican border.

    I have very mixed feelings about arming teachers. I am certainly against forcing teachers to be armed. One concern is the teacher losing control of the weapon and it being stolen by a student. However, if a teacher wants to be armed and passes a significant training course, then I would be good with that.

    that school covered 45 acres...should have been two, and maybe a golf cart to get around quicker?

    most schools could get by with 1, unless we are talking Chicago...in which case one per classroom
     

    Snake-Eyes

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    So a trillion dollars is a heck of a lot more than I guessed. That would be a non-starter.

    How about the idea that we can get a restraining order on folks who threaten violence - it is a bit of an expansion of the current law but not by much. Restraining order would block purchase new guns and require the restrained party to part ways with his existing guns for the duration of the order.

    Are you kidding again? Someone feels threatened based on something said, so a restraining order is issued by a liberal judge who doesn't want to be "that guy" who let the crazy shoot up a school next week, and guns are taken away for the indeterminate future? Well, that person won't shoot anyone so it must be working, right? Kinda like the Salem witch trial logic...

    Uhm, no. There are WAY too many gun laws as it is. The background checks are already in-place.

    How about you all apply this endless energy for more in-depth background checks and safety measures to Immigration and Voter ID? Once it's proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that the immigrants are no longer committing crimes and the votes are all legitimate, then we can talk about further punishment/"reforms" for legal gun ownership.
     
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