Jeb, he is a business man not a bought and paid for corrupt politician, I am sure he does business around the world. The only collusion has been clinton, podesta, obama, justice, fbi, they are all bought and paid for politicians and that is the real problem not Trump.

FrankT said:

The people you mention are obama regime hit guys that lied at the time and are lying now...you are dealing a quoting the deep state meant to destroy America...I know you are smarter than that

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Frank - you are extremely suspicious - but here you go - this is from the Current CIA HEAD and Trump appointee:

WASHINGTON — Central Intelligence Agency Director Mike Pompeo on Saturday stood by the U.S. intelligence assessment that Russia meddled in the 2016 election, despite President Trump's suggestion that he believes President Vladimir Putin's denials.

"The Director stands by and has always stood by the January 2017 Intelligence Community Assessment entitled: Assessing Russian Activities and Intentions in Recent U.S. Elections," the CIA said in a statement to CNN when asked for reaction to the president's remarks. "The intelligence assessment with regard to Russian election meddling has not changed."

FrankT said:

Jeb, he is a business man not a bought and paid for corrupt politician, I am sure he does business around the world. The only collusion has been clinton, podesta, obama, justice, fbi, they are all bought and paid for politicians and that is the real problem not Trump.

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You took the position that there are no ties between Russia and Trump- I was simply showing you that there are a boat load of ties. Trump has surrounded himself with other folks with strong Russian ties. We really do not know the full extent of his financial ties to Russia though we know from his son's interview that the family has been borrowing money from Russia since at least 2008

SAWMAN said:

Bottom line - - - -> Trumps leadership ='s a better America. If you don't like that . . . your unAmerican. --- SAWMAN

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Disagree with you on all points.

Knotnow said:

nothing to see here, just move along.
our government surely wouldn't do anything like the Trump voter base is accusing them of.
everything is fine. MSNBC, CNN, Nancy Pelosi, et al say the government wouldn't do anything like that, so it must be so.
you deplorables go back to sleep and trust the government....it will be fine.....
oh and the economy surging is Obama's doing, it has nothing to do with tax cuts or lessening regulations on business. MSNBC says so, so it must be so...
Im sure Jeb can find something somewhere on the internet that supports these positions...

Click to expand...

Sometimes I feel like I am talking to members of a cult, willing to disregard everything that might possibly contradict what their leader says. I wonder if Trump claimed that the earth was flat, how many folks would say "I knew NASA had been lying to us all of these years"

I can't for the life of me understand you thinking you can sell that liberal out look on this forum.

Jeb
you left out Racist....

guess what JEB and others, Trump is POTUS, your President, no matter how much clinton and the fbi tried to rig the election. The US is better off with Trump as POTUS and you are Not going to change that. Enjoy the extra money in your check and stop whining, he will make sure you keep your guns unlike clinton

Jeb, I respect you a lot for standing by your convictions. I'm just perplexed that you are as one side opinionated as you claim your detractors are. You havent agreed to a single concession or even the possibility that some of this stuff is true.
The real fact is, none of us know what the truth is, YET.
I get it, you don't like Trump. I was equally as fond of Obama as you are Trump. To know what the truth is, you have to attempt or at least pretend to understand both sides of the argument with an open mind. It is possible to have corrupt leadership in the FBI. It is even possible that the DEMs right on some points. But even that can't be recognized when they continue to yell the sky is falling because of Trump at every scrap of information emerges.
Being blatantly disrespectful and insulting all the time is as devisive as the possibility of a crime being committed IMHO.
And by the way, the only reason I care is so I can get to 1,000 posts.

Serious question: what exactly is the "Russian meddling" being alleged?

If it's the release of true/factual emails that happen to be embarrassing, then welcome to politics. The voters were still free to make up their minds and vote their conscience.

If it's something else, like voter fraud, etc, then I'd like to know.

It seems like all of this energy to substantiate a relationship between Russia and a previously non-politician businessman is misdirective and immaterial. Care to put that same magnifying glass on the Clintons, going back DECADES while they actually Were Politicians who swore an oath to this Country?

Oh wait, what am I thinking. Of course, nothing sticks to the Teflon Felons. Why would their brainwashed followers think they can do any wrong... Hypocritical two-faced cowards.

Though the Nunes memo was provided to the Democrats before release so they could provide input, the Democrats leaked their rebuttal to the media (to NBC, of course).

Snake-Eyes said:

Serious question: what exactly is the "Russian meddling" being alleged?

If it's the release of true/factual emails that happen to be embarrassing, then welcome to politics. The voters were still free to make up their minds and vote their conscience.

.

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I am going to take on faith that your initial question was sincere. Russia did hack Clinton's emails and then gave those emails to Trump for the purpose of aiding his campaign. Colluding with a foreign power to sway and election is a crime. 18 U.S. Code § 953 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/953

Also please remember that Russia is not our friend, they are in fact our enemies. (Ask Nicky Hale - Trump's appointee to the UN, Ask General Kelly, Ask General McMasters - all three have publicly stated as much. Now ask yourself is it a good thing that the man Russian wanted to win the presidency is now our president.

The second thing Russia did was buy a ton of ads and generate a lot of false articles that were favorable for Trump. Again our enemy wanted Trump to win.

I know that you will not believe me - maybe you will believe McMasters though.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42409144

Gen HR McMaster told the BBC that Moscow used propaganda and disinformation against democracies.

He said Russia's alleged meddling in US elections was "certainly" a national security threat.

He was speaking after President Trump's new national security policy labelled Russia and China "rival powers".

Across the divide
Gen McMaster told the BBC's Yalda Hakim: "We have to look at what Russia's actually doing. Of course we have to counter Russia's destabilising behaviour, and the sophisticated campaigns of propaganda and disinformation."

Those were "efforts to polarise communities and pit them against each other, especially in the democratic world and free and open societies", he added, saying that the intent was to "weaken their popular will and their resolve".

"I believe that Russia is engaged in a very sophisticated campaign of subversion to affect our confidence in democratic institutions, in democratic processes - including elections."

Jerry said:

Jeb, I respect you a lot for standing by your convictions. I'm just perplexed that you are as one side opinionated as you claim your detractors are. You havent agreed to a single concession or even the possibility that some of this stuff is true.
The real fact is, none of us know what the truth is, YET.
I get it, you don't like Trump. I was equally as fond of Obama as you are Trump. To know what the truth is, you have to attempt or at least pretend to understand both sides of the argument with an open mind. It is possible to have corrupt leadership in the FBI. It is even possible that the DEMs right on some points. But even that can't be recognized when they continue to yell the sky is falling because of Trump at every scrap of information emerges.
Being blatantly disrespectful and insulting all the time is as devisive as the possibility of a crime being committed IMHO.
And by the way, the only reason I care is so I can get to 1,000 posts.

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As for Trump, I have no respect for the man and I am horrified about what he has done to degrade the office of the President. He consistently lies, without any consequences. He will show no more respect for his oath of office than he has shown for his three marriage vows.

As for compromising - there is no give on either side of this argument. I have yet to read a single comment by the others on this forum changing their position by even a little. In fact, when the facts are against my opponents they simply resort to old tactic of shooting the messenger.

PS congrats on your 1000th post

Ross7 said:

Though the Nunes memo was provided to the Democrats before release so they could provide input, the Democrats leaked their rebuttal to the media (to NBC, of course).

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Democrat rebuttal may be released on Monday

Jeb21 said:

Democrat rebuttal may be released on Monday

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Dem representative Jerrold Nadler's rebuttal at least.
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/TODAY/z...NAL DRAFT -- Dear Colleague on Nunes Memo.pdf

Thanks - just read it- and I think it is just as partisan a hack job as the Nunes memo. Nothing but conclusion without any substance, just like the Nunes memo.

The House Intelligence committee is clearly broken and should be reformed with all new members. Anyone joining the committee should be required to both pass an intelligence test and a maturity test. Our national security is too important to be left to these children running around pretending to be congressmen and congresswomen.

So I have a question for Snake eyes and anyone else who wants to jump in. If it was true that back in July 2016 the FBI was investigating the Trump campaign for possible collusion with Russia and if it is true that in October 2016 the FBI and the DOJ lied to get a warrant to wiretap Trump's guy Carter Page and finally if it is true that the FBI and DOJ are part of a deep state conspiracy against Trump - then why didn't they tell the American people about this investigation BEFORE election day which was early November 2016? Certainly, letting the American people hear in an official press release from the FBI that they were investigating Trump for crimes involving Russia would have been a blow to his campaign. But that never happened. The FBI did not disclose that they were investigating Trump until March 2017 well after the investigation. Why would the deep state conspirators wait to officially disclose this potential bombshell.

However, the FBI did announce in a formal letter from Comey (the head of the FBI) just about 10 days before the election that the FBI was reopening the investigation against Clinton's handling of sensitive emails. This revelation caused a significant dip in Clinton's approval rating with the voters.

Your thoughts please

Jeb21 said:

I am going to take on faith that your initial question was sincere. Russia did hack Clinton's emails and then gave those emails to Trump for the purpose of aiding his campaign. Colluding with a foreign power to sway and election is a crime. 18 U.S. Code § 953 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/953

Also please remember that Russia is not our friend, they are in fact our enemies. (Ask Nicky Hale - Trump's appointee to the UN, Ask General Kelly, Ask General McMasters - all three have publicly stated as much. Now ask yourself is it a good thing that the man Russian wanted to win the presidency is now our president.

The second thing Russia did was buy a ton of ads and generate a lot of false articles that were favorable for Trump. Again our enemy wanted Trump to win.

I know that you will not believe me - maybe you will believe McMasters though.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42409144

Gen HR McMaster told the BBC that Moscow used propaganda and disinformation against democracies.

He said Russia's alleged meddling in US elections was "certainly" a national security threat.

He was speaking after President Trump's new national security policy labelled Russia and China "rival powers".

Across the divide
Gen McMaster told the BBC's Yalda Hakim: "We have to look at what Russia's actually doing. Of course we have to counter Russia's destabilising behaviour, and the sophisticated campaigns of propaganda and disinformation."

Those were "efforts to polarise communities and pit them against each other, especially in the democratic world and free and open societies", he added, saying that the intent was to "weaken their popular will and their resolve".

"I believe that Russia is engaged in a very sophisticated campaign of subversion to affect our confidence in democratic institutions, in democratic processes - including elections."

Click to expand...

Dude, yes, my question was sincere, and I still see nothing to point towards voter fraud.

Your own link to the USCode says basically a US citizen can't work with a foreign government to effectively influence the foreign government "in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States"... again, what's the controversy or measure affected? That an election didn't go the way the Democrats wanted?

Where is the fraud? Because so far, even if Russia is involved in leaking factual emails, they effectively just shared the embarrassing truth about the Democratic Party and it's front-runner. Wouldn't that be nice info for voters during a Presidential election? The TRUTH?

Oh wait, well let's assume it was all false and she's an innocent angel. Then her propaganda machine should've been able to recover.

Regardless, unless they messed with votes/ballots, the Democrats have zero leg to stand on to complain that the voters bought someone else's newsfeed.

As for the rest of the quotes and names and links, it's all the same. Where's the Russian involvement? What exactly did they allegedly do?

If releasing embarrassing info during a campaign is a crime, every major "news" network should be shutdown.

As for your comment about our enemy wanting him to win, there's too many leaps of faith there.
The election had two choices; that's it. I think if someone legally changed their name to "None of the Above" they might have a decent chance of getting elected President one day...
Russia's motivations are irrelevant to the current discussion. Maybe Putin hates her more than him. Maybe Putin flipped a coin. Maybe he just wanted to see what would happen and couldn't care which candidate won. Maybe he wanted the Democratic Party embarrassed so he could laugh at it whenever he met with her in an official capacity. Which one? Doesn't matter.

The embarrassment is all the Democratic Party's own doing.
If some talented US citizen hacker had done it, would every Democrat be pursuing this with such fervor?

As far as most of us who serve or ever served are concerned, her dereliction of duty, the FBI's admission of same, and her BS response were MORE than enough evidence to put her away. Why she isn't wearing a jumpsuit right now is beyond me.

Jeb21 said:

So I have a question for Snake eyes and anyone else who wants to jump in. If it was true that back in July 2016 the FBI was investigating the Trump campaign for possible collusion with Russia and if it is true that in October 2016 the FBI and the DOJ lied to get a warrant to wiretap Trump's guy Carter Page and finally if it is true that the FBI and DOJ are part of a deep state conspiracy against Trump - then why didn't they tell the American people about this investigation BEFORE election day which was early November 2016? Certainly, letting the American people hear in an official press release from the FBI that they were investigating Trump for crimes involving Russia would have been a blow to his campaign. But that never happened. The FBI did not disclose that they were investigating Trump until March 2017 well after the investigation. Why would the deep state conspirators wait to officially disclose this potential bombshell.

However, the FBI did announce in a formal letter from Comey (the head of the FBI) just about 10 days before the election that the FBI was reopening the investigation against Clinton's handling of sensitive emails. This revelation caused a significant dip in Clinton's approval rating with the voters.

Your thoughts please

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Great question. Answer: because in the United States, at least in writing, we are considered Innocent until PROVEN guilty.

Look at it from this perspective: there is Not Enough Real Evidence to make an arrest, so making a Top Secret investigation public, right before an election would be EXACTLY the kind of "Election Meddling" that the Democrats are complaining about. Except that in that case, since it would still be under investigation and possibly un-corroborated, it might be FALSE info.

However, for Clinton, there is ZERO doubt about what she did. None. And her staff were complicit accomplices, too. The public was/IS understandably Outraged about it and the lack of response from the government, so given the developments, the FBI taking another look IS something for citizens to know. Nothing FALSE about that.

Again, perhaps we should all be concerned that despite the mountain of evidence against her, she is not in jail. Want circumstantial proof of a "Deep State" or whatever? There you go. Explain why she isn't the fuck in jail.