DK Firearms

The barrel of the stainless steel 10 ML-II muzzleloader exploded, burst

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  • bobinbusan

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    BE AWARE

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/gun-makers-exploding-rifle-leaves-183639208.html

    James Putman of North Carolina alleges in a pending lawsuit that his Savage 10ML-II burst as he hunted last year in the George Washington National Forest, blasting his thumb off and forcing his early retirement as a firefighter.

    Savage Arms started making the 10ML-II in 2001. It was designed to withstand the use of smokeless powder, which appealed to some shooters because it didn't require the same messy cleanup as black powder.
     

    joraca

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    Smokeless powder, eh?

    I wonder what could possibly go wrong?
     

    FLT

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    They're some people that can screw up an anvil with a rubber hammer. Just as some experts shouldn't reload ammo, some folks shouldn't use a muzzle loader. Black powder is very forgiving of a overload , smokeless powder not so much.
     

    joraca

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    I had a friend buy a muzzleloader at an estate sale.

    He wanted me to inspect it before he shot it.

    I looked at it.

    Ran the ramrod down the barrel.

    It was loaded.

    I showed him how to use the ball puller.

    And mark his ramrod.
     

    SAWMAN

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    First . . . Savage might settle,but that guy will never WIN that lawsuit. Too hard to prove that he did nothing wrong.
    Second . . . I shoot a .50cal T/C Omega. My normal load (for the past 12 years) has been a 245gr or a 295gr Power Belt,powered by 3,50gr Triple 7 pellets.
    This load is powerful,fast,and will deliver all the energy needed to kill any animal in Fla. And using Triple 7 the bbl is really easy to clean.
    This combo is all I need. --- SAWMAN
     

    wildrider666

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    Savage has settled several similar Lawsuits out of Court on this particular BP rifle, but still claim when instructions are followed: there are no problems. Must be cheaper and so far avoided a Class Action Law Suit and Recall.
     

    FrommerStop

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    From the link that supports the case:
    Martin Crimp, a Michigan State University metals expert who examined a 10ML-II that exploded and caused a hunter to lose multiple fingers in 2009, told the AP the barrel of that gun was "metallurgically defective."

    An expert hired by Hansen's lawyers came to a similar conclusion, saying the steel used to make the rifle was prone to catastrophic failure after repeat firings.

    What the savage company claims happened
    Savage Arms has suggested that Hansen used an improper mix of powders that caused too much pressure. Trial is set for next year.

    Pro on the strength of this muzzle loader. https://www.chuckhawks.com/savage_ML_FAQ.htm
    Q. It has been said "the heart of any rifle" is its barrel. What about the Savage 10ML-II's barrel?

    A. Unlike most muzzleloading manufacturers, Savage Arms makes all their own barrels, from American, certified Gun Barrel Quality steel, the same as their high-powered center-fire barrels. The bore is .501 in. land-to-land, held to +/- .001 in. The rifling depth of the Savage 10-ML II is held to the closest tolerances in the muzzleloading world: .004 in., + .0000 in. / - .0005 in. It is the only muzzleloading barrel you can buy that is 100% proof-tested.

    Here is something interesting that needs more explanation.
    Q. What the heck is a "Vent-Liner," anyway?

    Well, I didn't name it. It is simply a hollow hex screw at the powder end of the breech plug. I'd call it a "Flame Jet Screw." They begin with a .030" orifice, and erode with time. When they reach .040" or so, they begin to affect ignition, and require replacement to insure "new gun" level accuracy. For most hunters, it is merely annual replacement. It is employed so breech plug replacement is not required, only the Flame Jet Screw (Vent-Liner).

    For those that shoot often, the specific amount of life of the Vent-Liner is contingent on the specific propellant, propellant charge, and projectile. One example is using a pound of Accurate Arms 5744 powder. That will net you in the area of 180 shots with full-powered loads. When you burn up that pound, it is the time to remove and service your breech plug, and replace the vent liner.
     

    FrommerStop

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    Probably confused Smokeless powder load with BP load.

    The victim was claiming faulty metallurgy and the gun can apparenly take smokeless loads.
    But the information put out by savage for loads is not clear. They have to be idiots to published as below
    NOTE: the below loads are maximum loads; reduce 10% and work up to acceptable performance below max Accurate XMP-5744 Sabot Max Charge (gr weight) Velocity (ft/sec) Energy (ft-lbs) 250 gr. Hornady SST or XTP (0.452") MMP Black 44.0 2267 2850 300 gr. Hornady SST or XTP (0.452") MMP Black 44.0 2218 3274 260gr/40 caliber Dead Center bullet Dead Center 45.0 2080 2495 Vihtavuori N110 Sabot Max Charge (gr weight) Velocity (ft/sec) Energy (ft-lbs) 250 gr. Hornady SST or XTP (0.452") MMP Black 42.0 2305 2946 Alliant Powder® Reloder® 7 Sabot Max Charge (gr weight) Velocity (ft/sec) Energy (ft-lbs) 250 gr. Hornady SST or XTP (0.452") MMP Black 59.0 2113 2476 300 gr. Hornady SST or XTP (0.452") MMP Black 52.5 1952 2536 Vihtavuori N120 Sabot Max Charge (gr weight) Velocity (ft/sec) Energy (ft-lbs) 300 gr. Hornady SST or XTP (0.452") MMP Black 60.0 2305 3536 Accurate 2015 Sabot Max Charge (gr weight) Velocity (ft/sec) Energy (ft-lbs) 300 gr. Hornady SST or XTP (0.452") MMP Black 75.0 2173 3142 Accurate LT-32 Sabot Max Charge (gr weight) Velocity (ft/sec) Energy (ft-lbs) 300 gr. Hornady SST or XTP (0.452") MMP Black 75.0 2283 3469 Note: Velocities measured from 10ML-II rifle https://www.savagearms.com/content?p=load_data
    If the barrel was not defective the below suggests a barrel obstruction or improperly loaded projectile. Even a modern blackpowder rated rifle can tolerate 'reasonable' smokeless loads before they let go. Not recommended by anyone for sure. But in a survival scenario it is good to know.

    1588775073578.png


    A charger full of H110 damaged the gun below, but the gun held together. Same charge of titegroup blew the barrel and lock. Putting similar load if you could get it into a marlin 45-70 would blow it up too most likely.

     
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