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.223 brass and 5.56 brass question

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  • Mouser

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    I am familiar with the adage that you can shoot a .223 in a 5.56mm chambering, but not the other way. I am not fully understanding why...I read pressures and I've read the specifications of neck length are different...

    here is my question...assuming I am hand loading/sizing brass to .223 specifications, can you mix the two brass? I shoot mostly .223 but have a little 5.56 and would rather not separate brass.
     

    Daezee

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    For my plinking and full auto loads, I used mixed brass. I load "moderate" loads. No problems doing so in 25+ years of reloading .223/5.56. For more precision such as when hunting or testing bullets or steel shooting, I use the same headstamp brass (RP or LC).
     

    Zeroed in

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    I thought the two are the same as far as for reloading, if using .223 dies, only the barrel chambering is different, that's why there are wylde chambered barrels to accomendate both 5.56 and .223 chamberings. But then again, I'm a newbie on reloading, so don't take my understanding of it as being written in stone.
     

    oneshot

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    GI brass is suppose to be a little thicker then comm. brass, so the books say decrease by about 5% on load , that being said for general loads do what Daezee says. That's what I do. The out side of the brass is the same. Didn't know there was a difference for 25 plus years. My 223 guns didn't know the difference until ever one stated talking about it then, they refuse to let me shoot the 556 in them. Just my 5 cents jj
     

    SAWMAN

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    Most all military brass is thicker. I know this by having weighed quite a few pieces of it over the years. This after having deprimed and cut back to SAAMI OAL.
    There is also quite a difference between the commercial brands. The brands that I have weighed were Rem,Fed,and Win.
    Most of the brass that I use nowadays is TW73 and any of the LC. My 308/7.62 brass is all LC72 MATCH.
    I have shot a ton of 5.56X45 NATO brass thru several different 223Rem chambers. It is not super accurate but none other problems. My most accurate brass is TW73 coming out of my 5.56 chamber or especially my 223Rem chambers.
    My rule is that if I use military brass I drop back one full grain from the reloading specs. I do use magnum primers in just about everything that I load nowadays also.
    Personally . . . I do not see any advantage to having a Wylde chamber if you are a meticulous reloader. It probably would not hurt. But help . . . . . ?? --- SAWMAN
     

    Daezee

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    Weigh some of the .223 and 5.56 brass you intend on using, after trimming them to the same or nearly same length. I found LC and RP head stamp brass to be very close, compared to some of the others. With MY shooting, I found LC and RP brass to shoot with the same accuracy to the same point of impact, again, that's in .223 and 5.56.

    With the 7.62x51 cases I have found a bit of difference in accuracy in my reloads, with LC58 shooting the same as LC04,05, and 06. However the same load and bullet and rifle with LC12 brass gave noticeably larger groups (.308 Ruger Precision Rifle) (same day, multiple groups fired, bbl cooled to ambient temp after each 5 shot 100yd group).
     

    FrommerStop

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    Thanks for the information on the thickness 5.56 nato brass. I learned the hard way about GI 30-06 brass when I started popping primers using loads meant for commercial brass in a p17 with generous headspacing. I am finally turning towards the AR with an Alexander Arms upper now being shipped via UPS. Itis supposed to arrive by Friday. I need now to shop locally for a lower for it.
    I will go the 6.5 grendel route which is a much superior load when compared to the 5.56/.223. But somewhere along the line I may get a 5.56 upper since the ammo and brass is so available and in fact I have a 5 gal bucket of US made 5.56 once fired brass. Projectiles are much cheaper also in .223 caliber.
     

    FrommerStop

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    GI brass is suppose to be a little thicker then comm. brass, so the books say decrease by about 5% on load , that being said for general loads do what Daezee says. That's what I do. The out side of the brass is the same. Didn't know there was a difference for 25 plus years. My 223 guns didn't know the difference until ever one stated talking about it then, they refuse to let me shoot the 556 in them. Just my 5 cents jj
    It might make a difference if you use the steel case russian ammo in the shorter .223 chambers assuming what you have is one of the shorter chambers. Apparently there is more than one set of chamber dimensions in use for ARs even for .223s marked guns. Basically the nato chamber is supposed to longer than the various .223's. I am just getting into ARs and have no personal knowledge, just what I have seen on the internet.
     

    Little Jack

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    It might make a difference if you use the steel case russian ammo in the shorter .223 chambers assuming what you have is one of the shorter chambers. Apparently there is more than one set of chamber dimensions in use for ARs even for .223s marked guns. Basically the nato chamber is supposed to longer than the various .223's. I am just getting into ARs and have no personal knowledge, just what I have seen on the internet.

    JJ's seen all sorts of chambers, and put quite a bit of stuff through them. He'd be happy to answer any questions you've got and may even let you shoot some.
     

    FrommerStop

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    JJ's seen all sorts of chambers, and put quite a bit of stuff through them. He'd be happy to answer any questions you've got and may even let you shoot some.
    It says Little Jacks Guns in your avatar that you are a dealer and local since I am in Pace. According to the google mp you are next a power line right away.

    I will be looking for a lower and accessories like irons sights for an AR upper in a little bit. Is that something you all deal in?
     

    SAWMAN

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    And then there is this. Makes it easier to "grasp" just what the difference is in the two chambers and factory loaded rounds. --- SAWMAN
     

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    FrommerStop

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    Then it appears seating bullets to touch the lands is not a safe practice with full loads in a 5.56 chambered barrel.
     

    SAWMAN

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    FrommerStop, you are right. Especially if loaded to the higher pressures.
    Also - - -> with the violent action of a semi auto (AR),when the BCG comes slamming forward,pushing a 5.56X45 rd into a 223Rem chamber/bbl,the neck gets an extra rather violent crimp from the too small and short freebore. Thus raising the pressure even further.
    As stated above . . . I have shot tons of factory/mil 5.56X45 loads thru good,strong 223Rem chambered guns. Guns like Ruger Mini-14's,Ruger #1's,H&R Handi Rifles,and the older T/C Contenders,without a problem.
    However I AM NOT endorsing it. ---- SAWMAN
     
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    FrommerStop

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    FrommerStop, you are right. Especially if loaded to the higher pressures.
    Also - - -> with the violent sction of a semi auto (AR),when the BCG comes slsmming forward,pushing a 223Rem rd into a 5.56X45 chamber/bbl,the neck gets an extra rather violent crimp from the too small and short freebore. Thus raising the pressure even further.
    As stated above . . . I have shot tons of factory 5.56X45 loads thru good,strong 223Rem chambered guns. Guns like Ruger Mini-14's,Ruger #1's,H&R Handi Rifles,and the older T/C Contenders,without a problem.
    However IAM NOT endorsing it. ---- SAWMAN

    .22 center fire cartridges are known for high pressure spikes. Perhaps freebore issues are involved.
    I have a very early Ruger series 180, one of the 1st 1000 made. I always wondered if it had a nato chamber or not. I do not shoot it very much since it is so inaccurate. With factory mags it is 100% reliable and I have one of the early 30 round factory ruger mags to go with it.
     

    SAWMAN

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    I shot probably 3000rds thru a 181 series back in the early 80's. Free to me. M193 ammo. A couple of years later I also got a 183 series and probably put another couple thousand rds thru that gun. This time M855's.
    Hunted abandoned railroad beds in Maine for woodchucks. --- SAWMAN
     
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    "Also - - -> with the violent action of a semi auto (AR),when the BCG comes slamming forward,pushing a 223Rem rd into a 5.56X45 chamber/bbl,the neck gets an extra rather violent crimp from the too small and short freebore. Thus raising the pressure even further."


    I'm confused - I thought the freebore in the chamber of the 5.56 was longer than that in a 223 chamber, as per the diagram above.
     

    SAWMAN

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    Hey Joel . . . I posted it that way just to see who was the easiest on the forum to confuse. And NOW we know.
    Not really. Really - - -> I misspoke/mistyped. I got it back asswards. I will edit my above post. Thanks for catching that,from now on please act as my official proof reader.
    Depending on the gun sometimes if you extract a 5.56 out of a 223 chamber without firing it,you can tell that the neck is slightly crimped as is the mouth of the brass. --- SAWMAN
     

    SAWMAN

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    Remember also gentlemen - - -> the 223Rem is a SAAMI "blessed" chambering. The 5.56X45 NATO is not. The sized brass specs is darn near the same . . . really close . . . but not exactly.
    The firesrms chsmbers/barrels are "more" different. ---- SAWMAN
     

    Little Jack

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    It says Little Jacks Guns in your avatar that you are a dealer and local since I am in Pace. According to the google mp you are next a power line right away.

    I will be looking for a lower and accessories like irons sights for an AR upper in a little bit. Is that something you all deal in?

    If you're looking for something, pm me with what you want. I'll see what I can do. .
     

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