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  • Viking1204

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    So I'll start with the first question I can think of, first some background. I've researched and have seen and used my friend's ATN X-Sight II Night Vision Smart Scope and been told by a member of this forum I should wait until I've looked at Thermal closer. The problem I have with Thermal is they are a lot higher in price and I've never been able to check out a Thermal scope in person so I haven't been able to compare the difference. I can get the ATN X-Sight II on Amazon for $600 and the one I tried out had a pretty solid image in pitch blackness out to 100 yards.

    So now my question for the experts, so what are the pros and cons of Night Vision vs Thermal? Anybody else have a question please add to the conversation, Jeep is going to make this a Sticky!
     

    Daezee

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    I'll start with some thoughts.

    Thermal PRO:

    Can DETECT animals a long ways away (the longest I've detected hogs was a bit over 600yd; I stalked to about 200yd and ID'd them as hogs; I stalked to 90yd and shot a sow). That was with my 1st thermal, a 1-2x model.

    Can use them in daylight (I do to find downed deer).

    Can sight them in in daylight.

    Animals seem to "pop" right out of the darkness (I normally use white hot) compared to night vision where it can sometimes be hard to see an animal unless it's moving.

    Thermal CON:

    Can DETECT animals further away than you can IDENTIFY them (so you sometimes have to stalk closer to ID for sure; with experience IDing gets to be somewhat easier).

    Go through batteries faster than some night vision products.

    For deer depredation permits, it can be hard to see antlers if the goal is shooting does for crop damage.

    The view is not as sharp as night vision, as you are looking at heat vs the sharp outline of an object.
     

    SAWMAN

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    There have been some "in depth" posts re. NV/thermal on this forum in the years past. I have posted more than a few myself,as did Daezee.
    I would just make a few points. Only listen to people about thermal that has actually used thermal or NV. And about a specific model that they have used.
    If you will not use thermal quite a bit (10+ times per month) don't buy it unless you have alot of money.
    Do your homework on both thermal and NV. Moreso than on a firearm or a pickup truck. If you do not understand how this stuff works,it's capabilities, the prices,what YOU need out of a unit,you will not make an informed decission and it will cost you money. HUGE money if you invest in the wrong thermal.
    With thermal,start with deciding what magnification you need and what resolution you need. This will make a huge difference in the price. Be realistic as to where you will hunt,what you will hunt,and in what environment. None of either unit will allow you to hunt in the thick woods.
    Read all you can about the available units. Especially thermal. There are big decissions that have to be made that will be the difference in several thousand dollars. --- SAWMAN
     

    Jester896

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    NV can see through glass where Thermal cannot.
     

    SAWMAN

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    With thermal,you can see your hand inside a big,plastic trash bag. Thru the bag. Using NV . . . nope.
    Using thermal you can look into light. Street lights,car lights,flashlight,etc, will not effect the usage. The info that came with my thermal said that you should not look into the direct sun or a welding arc. --- SAWMAN
     

    Jester896

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    Auto gated will shut you down if the light gets too bright..still don't suggest you look at it. I don't usually have a problem with streetlights around the house...pivot lights are a different story
     

    SAWMAN

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    With thermal,you can tell how full your feeder is without having to walk down to it,and get up on it to peek in. --- SAWMAN
     

    Jester896

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    although looking at your hand in a trash bag and checking your feeder are way up on the "Kewl" list I am not sure I would base a purchase of a Thermal Device on it.

    the differences between 320 and 640 are basically there is something hot on the other side of the pivot..give me a minute to try and ID it before we move closer ...to look at those hogs or deer on the other side of the pivot. It is really hard to pick up a deer colored object with NV without movement. Unless you run an illuminator on low to highlight their eyes...whether it be in the grill or on the rifle.... yotes are easier without illumination. Zooming in with a Thermal reduces the image quality. objects look larger with thermal devices because it also reads heat around the object. It is odd to me that no matter what color the hog is in NV it is black :D I have seen the eyelashes on a hog under 100 yards with my NV but I do not ever remember seeing them in a Thermal. Inline batteries as with other devices can render the device inoperable with heavy recoil....when something is running at you moments are an eternity.

    the amount of money you spend should be directly related to your intended purpose for use.
     

    FrankT

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    There are some great new thermals out there with very easy ID and long distance viewing for 1/2 what they cost 5 years ago. Great advancements in NV too with the white phosphorus and Gen4 like tubes, again a lot less that in the past. The best set up is a PVS14 type NV for navigation, a thermal monocular for spotting and a thermal weapons sight on the rifle, but unless you are a very serious and prolific hunter the cost for Ideal is not an option.

    The new Pulsars are great and when Armasight/FLIR releases their new models with the new cores you will be amazed. At this point though I would wait to see what SHOT Show brings before buying.
     

    Jester896

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    What is the pivot or pivot lights?

    the irrigation system in a field...there is one heck of a bright light on the end when it is in motion.

    There are some great new thermals out there with very easy ID and long distance viewing for 1/2 what they cost 5 years ago. Great advancements in NV too with the white phosphorus and Gen4 like tubes, again a lot less that in the past. The best set up is a PVS14 type NV for navigation, a thermal monocular for spotting and a thermal weapons sight on the rifle, but unless you are a very serious and prolific hunter the cost for Ideal is not an option.

    The new Pulsars are great and when Armasight/FLIR releases their new models with the new cores you will be amazed. At this point though I would wait to see what SHOT Show brings before buying.

    good stuff right there

    the one driving uses the PVS..hate that the old Tam went out... the Thermal hangs out of the passenger window...we shoot with NV and/or Thermal. Some of the mounts go from hand held to weapon mounted pretty close to zero
     

    Telum Pisces

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    To the OP, I'm an owner of the atn x-sight. It's digital "night vision". Just know the difference between that and true night vision products as well.

    I will say this. I love my ATN X-Sight. It fits my needs for hunting 150 yards or less over a feeder!

    I like it for the daytime use, recording ability, and the single shot zero and ability to have multiple zeros for different rounds as well.

    Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
     

    FrankT

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    To the OP, I'm an owner of the atn x-sight. It's digital "night vision". Just know the difference between that and true night vision products as well.

    I will say this. I love my ATN X-Sight. It fits my needs for hunting 150 yards or less over a feeder!

    I like it for the daytime use, recording ability, and the single shot zero and ability to have multiple zeros for different rounds as well.

    Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

    I agree with TP, I have a Gen 1 X-sight and they do now have this scope working properly and for stand shooting it is adequate. I did get a long range after market IR and can ID or shoot up to 150-200 yds and see animals to 300. The difference between $599 and $2000 for a basic thermal or $3500+ for a good thermal and you can see why my cheap ass has the X-sight. There is also a new digital clipon for use behind a red dot and one for behind a scope with recording capability for $399 and I can find his videos

    http://www.3dnightvision.com/store/c2/Night_Vision_Units.html
     
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    Jester896

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    Jester Pulsar/sightmark just came out with a new return to zero mount you will love,small and compact!

    very acceptable results as far as I'm concerned. We usually stalk up to inside 100 on small groups and if that was a 100 yard sight in (didn't catch it in the video) it would be half that size @ 50

    the first video has good info in it too.
     

    Telum Pisces

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    I agree with TP, I have a Gen 1 X-sight and they do now have this scope working properly and for stand shooting it is adequate. I did get a long range after market IR and can ID or shoot up to 150-200 yds and see animals to 300. The difference between $599 and $2000 for a basic thermal or $3500+ for a good thermal and you can see why my cheap ass has the X-sight. There is also a new digital clipon for use behind a red dot and one for behind a scope with recording capability for $399 and I can find his videos

    http://www.3dnightvision.com/store/c2/Night_Vision_Units.html

    I will say the Gen II ATN X-Sight has quite a few upgrades and the IR that comes with the new one is far superior. Here is a video at 90 yards to my feeder with the IR on low! I hardly ever turn the IR on anything but low. I will say this, I have an external battery pack to run it and it's dang HEAVY!!! This is not a spot and stalk setup for sure!!!! Another con to the IR/digital night vision setup is if you have anything in the view of the scope like branches or tall grass if hunting on the ground, the screen auto adjusts for brightness and it can wash out the screen if you don't have a clear line of site to your target.

    First is of some coons. Second one is a doe. Both times I'm sitting out there for hogs and of course everything but a hog comes in.

    Another big advantage is that I can pair the scope to my phone! You ask well, why the heck would I want to do that. Well I taught my daughter to shoot with it. I could see exactly what she was seeing and could coach her and train her where kill shots are etc... And the end result is her shooting with this scope in daylight on a 160 lb Boar!

    In the below videos, it's a little grainy. In the view finder it's a bit more crisp when not uploaded to youtube etc....



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBNOnPr1Evw

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcKaTXz86HI
     

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    Telum Pisces

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    Darn she did good! That is about what mine looks like I have the 3-12 for a wider FOV. The genII have more doodads but I have all shut off on my scope and only gave $400 for it. My KENTLI AA rechargeable batteries run 5+ hrs, I have external batteries but never needed them. I also have a digital monocular for spotting

    10-4, I have the rechargeable Kentli batteries as well. So far I am impressed for a China product with those batteries. I am just scared to death that they will run out right when I need to make that shot. I have two sets. But I just know I'll have to change batteries right when an animal steps out.
    That is my luck. So I have the battery pack that will run it for 2 days straight! :)
     

    FrankT

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