APOD Firearms

My problems with IDPA and other gun games that I know of

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Gulf Coast States

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • FrommerStop

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Joined
    Apr 7, 2016
    Messages
    6,897
    Points
    113
    Location
    NWFL
    I am going to be controversial here.
    Here are some of my problems with the common gun games. Games are fun for sure and I have nothing against those that like to play them.

    Any performance type shooting that I do I want it to reflect how I would defend myself under real conditions and not learn bad habits.
    Carry-from IDPA rules
    First of my problems-
    8.5.1.19 Not Permitted (Non-Inclusive list):
    8.5.1.19.1 Cross-draw carry
    8.5.1.19.2 Shoulder holsters
    8.5.1.19.3 Small of the back carry
    8.5.1.19.4 Appendix carry
    8.5.1.19.5 Pocket carry
    Three of the modes of my common carry methods are outlawed. I carry concealed which means the gun is on the inside of the belt under my shirt if it is on my waist and it is either in the small of back or appendix. Never done it but ankle holsters are used also by many. We do live in the south and clothing is minimal. On some occasions it will be in my pocket in a holster. Ambidextrous gun use to clear corners is not encouraged, but I guess you can do it anyway if you want. No point are given for it.
    The IDPA scenarios that I participated encourage aggressiveness. You have a defined problem and you had to kill the bad guys. LEOs are supposed engage since it is their job. No way in real life would I ever openly engage armed assailants if I could flee the other way. Except to defend a loved one. Ambushing scenario stages were not set up and if you are going to engage in combat it is the preferred method of dealing with intruders on your property and home intruders. Retreating technique is not taught. Never give an opponent a chance to kill you. Call 911 and let the cops do the killing if possible. If you do face an opponent it should be done getting off the x. Maybe you guys do get off the x, I do not know for sure. The most important thing in a gunfight is not to get shot.
    I am in the process of equipping my guns with RMRs or maybe even the new leupold when it possible. These cost way more than an OEM Glock. Below is a DP pro mounted on a 1911 by onesourcetactical. At close ranges these of course are not needed, but do I want to train using them also.

    I am looking for training that is useful and so it looks like I will have to do it by myself which is not the best way to do it. If someone has constructive suggestions I will pay a lot of attention to such.

    SI DP pro.jpg
     

    Attachments

    • SI DP pro.jpg
      SI DP pro.jpg
      78.9 KB · Views: 296

    Glock31c

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Joined
    Nov 28, 2013
    Messages
    1,031
    Points
    63
    Location
    Mobile
    Ummm pay $2000 dollars and go to one of them class James yegar or who ever you like. Idpa is really a competition for time and see how good you is with your gun. Its a section here for training. Just my thoughts
     

    Glock31c

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Joined
    Nov 28, 2013
    Messages
    1,031
    Points
    63
    Location
    Mobile
    And when you bad guy got you at gun point you think he going to wait until you dial 911.
     

    SpitFire

    Marksman
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Joined
    Nov 16, 2015
    Messages
    527
    Points
    28
    Location
    Crestview
    IDPA, etc, are games, period. Not "training" like what you have described. Remedy: I prescribe a good look in the mirror is necessary for you.

    Life is too short, have fun and be safe.
     

    ChrisC

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Joined
    Oct 16, 2013
    Messages
    1,384
    Points
    83
    Location
    FLORIDA
    I know how you feel bro. I was bummed to find out mexican carry is not allowed since that is usually my preferred carry when I roll in the hood. I guess I'm just going to make a tactical course in my bedroom to suffice my training because I don't like the kick door aggresive IDPA training either. why pay $2k for a boring defensive training when I can watch James Yeager on Youtube for free?! I can buy more RMRs with that money
     
    Last edited:

    FrommerStop

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Joined
    Apr 7, 2016
    Messages
    6,897
    Points
    113
    Location
    NWFL
    I know how you feel bro. I was bummed to find out mexican carry is not allowed since that is usually my preferred carry when I roll in the hood. I guess I'm just going to make a tactical course in my bedroom to suffice my training because I don't like the kick door aggresive IDPA training either. why pay $2k for a boring defensive training when I can watch James Yeager on Youtube for free?! I can buy more RMRs with that money
    I prefer the suarez school myself and while not cheap I did not spend 2000 dollars. I have his videos including his relatively recent on close quarter fighting in structures. That is three plus hours long and I have not mastered that.
    Mexican carry I used highly modified. I use a zack trigger guard holster along with the glock slide mounted belt clip with a G33. I am in the process of switching it over from .357 to .40 and wish I had purchased it in 9x19.
     

    Dan1612

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    28   0   0
    Joined
    Sep 5, 2013
    Messages
    10,600
    Points
    113
    Location
    Pensacola
    I suppose we could all show up to the range one day and spend all morning running away from the targets.
     
    Last edited:

    Dan1612

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    28   0   0
    Joined
    Sep 5, 2013
    Messages
    10,600
    Points
    113
    Location
    Pensacola
    True. But you know, I think underwater basket weaving is pretty useless and provides no real useable skills that I'm interested in, but I also don't feel the need to make a fuss about it.
    I personally go to the range to shoot and the premise of the whole thing is that you can't get away and you have to fight. It's like going to a jui-jitsu class or tournament to learn about negotiation and conflict resolution. I mean, if OP wants to learn to run from targets, I'm sure Ian could set one up at the starting line of a race and they could run a marathon together to see who can get the furthest away in the shortest amount of time. However, that's not really the point of a "shooting competition" is it?
     
    Last edited:

    donr101395

    Master
    Super Moderator
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Joined
    Jan 26, 2013
    Messages
    2,984
    Points
    83
    Location
    Crestview
    I prefer the suarez school myself and while not cheap I did not spend 2000 dollars. I have his videos including his relatively recent on close quarter fighting in structures. That is three plus hours long and I have not mastered that.
    Mexican carry I used highly modified. I use a zack trigger guard holster along with the glock slide mounted belt clip with a G33. I am in the process of switching it over from .357 to .40 and wish I had purchased it in 9x19.

    You can do better for your training dollar than SI and I say that after being one of the top 5 instructors for him for almost 5 years and being one of the instructors in the CQB video. The curriculum is fine overall, the presentation varies depending on the instructor. The vast majority of his instructors primary credential is they have taken most of their training from SI which has led to an inbred approach to advancing the art and curriculum. Many of the techniques taught are different from the rest of the industry just to be different not because they are better. If they were better than what everyone else was teaching, everyone would be stealing them to use as their own.


    On the original topic, they are all games and games come with rules and a scoring process. It's just they way it is.
     

    FUPAGUNT

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Joined
    Sep 26, 2012
    Messages
    5,122
    Points
    48
    Location
    Pace
    Went and checked out an IDPA match in St. Aug a few months back just to see what it was all about. Too many Dude Bro "Operators" in their fancy mesh sponsor shirts for my liking. It's just seems like a big boy game with expensive toys to me.
     

    Dan1612

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    28   0   0
    Joined
    Sep 5, 2013
    Messages
    10,600
    Points
    113
    Location
    Pensacola
    Went and checked out an IDPA match in St. Aug a few months back just to see what it was all about. Too many Dude Bro "Operators" in their fancy mesh sponsor shirts for my liking. It's just seems like a big boy game with expensive toys to me.
    Lots of expensive toys owned by Dude Bro Operators here too, but hey, whatever it is that you think you're doing here is none of my business.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

    barebones1

    Marksman
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Joined
    Nov 1, 2012
    Messages
    886
    Points
    18
    lets see $15 bucks. gun safety and marksman ship. hanging out with some like minded people. a game ? .ab-so-freaking-lute -lye. what match was it called training? big kids game? shot with quite a few teens. expensive toys ? I shoot one of them "high dollar" glock. Practical shooting has made me a safer, more accurate shooter. I could care less about training to strap up for the hood. ( that is what the LEO`S get paid for and thank god for them) I just happen to like putting holes in paper. BTW it is no easy task to be good at "practical shooting" that is what its called, not "get you ready for a gun fight shooting" I view it as golf with a gun . If I wanted to train to shoot "tactical" I suppose I would search out "tactical" training.......idpa and uspsa are GAMES played with guns.
     

    FUPAGUNT

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Joined
    Sep 26, 2012
    Messages
    5,122
    Points
    48
    Location
    Pace
    Shit I ain't knocking it if that's what people like to do for a hobby, everyone has to have something that they like to do. But per the IDPA website "IDPA is a shooting sport that simulates self-defense scenarios and real life encounters" , I just ain't seeing that I am sorry from what I witnessed so I can understand what OP is saying. Its cool if that is what your into though, I couldn't care less. Anything that will give you trigger time is a good thing.
     

    FrommerStop

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Joined
    Apr 7, 2016
    Messages
    6,897
    Points
    113
    Location
    NWFL
    You can do better for your training dollar than SI and I say that after being one of the top 5 instructors for him for almost 5 years and being one of the instructors in the CQB video. The curriculum is fine overall, the presentation varies depending on the instructor. The vast majority of his instructors primary credential is they have taken most of their training from SI which has led to an inbred approach to advancing the art and curriculum. Many of the techniques taught are different from the rest of the industry just to be different not because they are better. If they were better than what everyone else was teaching, everyone would be stealing them to use as their own.


    On the original topic, they are all games and games come with rules and a scoring process. It's just they way it is.
    If they were teaching something that was wrong, I obviously need to know about. Paragon pride would be a good place to read about it and if I missed past relevant posts on it could you please put the links here so that i can read them. It is important not to learn incorrect techniques that can get me killed. I suspect that gabe wanted things done his way and most of us are individualist, so such mandates will rub a lot of people the wrong way. I certainly do not agree with Gabe that for my local that AK's are irrelevant today.
    For others that may not know some of the instructors of SI (Suarez international) broke away along some of the forum members and have their own Forum called Paragon Pride. There are some really hard feelings in this break away. I take no sides on it. I think both sides have knowledge that for me is complementary. I read the technical part of Paragon Pride Forum, but have elected to avoid the discussion part of that forum. Many of those that post on the technical part also post on warrior talk which G. Suarez's forum.
     

    Snow Bird

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Joined
    Feb 11, 2013
    Messages
    3,218
    Points
    0
    Location
    Foley, AL
    I play that IDPA game and love it I get to shoot and have fun doing it SOMETHING ELSE.

    How many times have I and you heard MY GUN NEVER FAILS. Well bullshit.They all fail and no matter who you are or what you shoot(even GLOCK guys ) will have something go wrong. Clear that malfuntion on the clock under only that pressure and see how long it takes.

    Sometimes you forget the old Tap Rack Bang or the famous Rack Rack Rack. and you don't even have anyone shooting at you.

    I also have watched Yeager Utbes but they dont do a damn thing for you in real life. Just put a simple Buzzer and timer on you and see how fast you can go brain dead.

    If you want to test yourself just alittle shoot a few matches and see how you do and then put it down if you still want to. Beleave it or not you can miss that target at 10 yards while moveing and most of us really don't move that fast.

    Then take that expensive class and become a real shooter,or hope to be. You are right they are just a game but I don't know anyone who hasen't become a better gun handler after shoot a few.
     

    donr101395

    Master
    Super Moderator
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Joined
    Jan 26, 2013
    Messages
    2,984
    Points
    83
    Location
    Crestview
    If they were teaching something that was wrong, I obviously need to know about. Paragon pride would be a good place to read about it and if I missed past relevant posts on it could you please put the links here so that i can read them. It is important not to learn incorrect techniques that can get me killed. I suspect that gabe wanted things done his way and most of us are individualist, so such mandates will rub a lot of people the wrong way. I certainly do not agree with Gabe that for my local that AK's are irrelevant today.
    For others that may not know some of the instructors of SI (Suarez international) broke away along some of the forum members and have their own Forum called Paragon Pride. There are some really hard feelings in this break away. I take no sides on it. I think both sides have knowledge that for me is complementary. I read the technical part of Paragon Pride Forum, but have elected to avoid the discussion part of that forum. Many of those that post on the technical part also post on warrior talk which G. Suarez's forum.


    Wrong is a relative term, outdated is more appropriate. For instance the slinging technique taught by SI of dropping the rifle across your back works fine in the plains of Africa with a fixed two point sling and was state of the art in 1978. Slings and slinging techniques have progressed since then. Try their technique in a confined space or in close proximity to an adversary and it doesn't work very well. That is just one example of clinging to things just for the sake of being different.

    I hold no ill will with Gabe. The same can't be said of him, but it's all good. It was pretty funny when he threatened to sue us all though and went away with his tail tucked after his cheap non-spelling lawyer was schooled.
     
    Top Bottom