HD Tactical

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  • flyandscuba

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    I like to engage in handgun projects from time to time. In the past, I have converted a Sig Arms Mauser M2 from 40 S&W to 10mm Auto -- as well as converted a new production (High Standard) AMT Back-up pistol from 40 S&W to 10mm Auto (talk about a hand cannon!).

    Currently, my project is to convert a S&W SW99 chambered in 45 ACP to fire 460 Rowland. S&W only made the SW99 for a short time as a joint project with Walther -- and the 45 ACP version only a brief portion of that time. So, the SW99s in 45 ACP aren't too common - but they can be found at a decent price ($300-$500 depending upon condition). However, S&W still supports the line with spare parts. My extra barrel arrived in the mail from S&W today -- and I have replacement small and large backstraps on the way.

    Reaming the chamber of the barrel to accept the slightly longer 460 Rowland cartridge isn't all that difficult. The main concern in the conversion is to find a way to slow down the slide velocity during recoil to prevent accelerated wear or damage to the slide or frame of the pistol. The stock guide rod is polymer and the weight of the recoil spring is 14 pounds. I am having a new stainless steel guide rod made by BT Guide Rods ( http://btguiderods.com/ ), and I obtained a 24 pound extra power recoil spring for a S&W M&P 45 from Wolff Gun Springs to use in the SW99. I'm hoping that that will do the trick. However, most 460 Rowland conversions involve either porting the barrel or adding a compensator.

    I despise ported barrels -- especially on a handgun that may be used for self defense (in this case -- as a woods gun against 4-legged predators with big teeth and claws). I have no idea if S&W would make an extended length barrel for me that could be threaded for a compensator -- but I plan to ask, even though I've already bought a spare stock length barrel from them.

    For those who are not familiar with the 460 Rowland cartridge. It was considered a wildcat cartridge for hand loaders until ammo makers like Buffalo Bore, Double Tap, and now Underwood began to offer factory loaded cartridges. Essentially, it is a slightly lengthened 45 ACP case (so it can't be chambered in unmodified pistols) with a stronger area in the base/webbing of the case. The bullet is seated further into the case in order to retain the same OAL as 45 ACP -- so that the conventional 45 ACP magazines can be used and no modifications to the pistol frame or magazine well are required.

    Of course, the 460 Rowland cartridge is loaded to a higher pressure. The hierarchy of 45 case lengths are as follows 45 GAP, 45 ACP/45Super, 460 Rowland, and finally 45 Winchester Magnum. 45 GAP and 45 ACP offer essentially identical ballistic performance in "standard" pressure loads. The 45 Super has the same external dimensions as the 45 ACP, but the casing is strengthened at the base/webbing to handle higher pressure. Think of the 45 Super as being a 45 ACP +P+ loading. I have successfully used 45 Super in unmodified firearms chambered in 45 ACP such as my Springfield XDS and HK USP Tactical.

    460 Rowland is loaded to a much higher pressure than the 45 Super -- and it produces ballistics equal to mid-range 44 Magnum loads. Therefore, with a pistol converted to 460 Rowland -- you can get true 44 Magnum performance from a combat-sized semi-auto pistol, holding more magazine capacity. In the case of the SW99, I will have a 9+1 capacity in a relatively lightweight and slim pistol for woods carry. The semi-auto mechanism makes shooting much more comfortable (think shooting 357 Magnum from a snubbie compared to firing 357 Sig from a G33) than a 44 Magnum revolver.

    As for the 45 Win Mag -- it is a monster that requires a monster of a handgun! :eek:

    For other pistol conversion options to 460 Rowland, visit http://460rowland.com/

    Here are some example pressures and ballistics for the various 45 caliber pistol cartridges (Underwood Ammunition)

    Cartridge Bullet Weight Chamber Pressure Muzzle Velocity Muzzle Energy

    45 GAP 230gr 23,000 900fps 414ft/lbs

    45 ACP 230gr 21,000 900fps 414ft/lbs

    45 ACP+P 230gr 23,000 1000fps 511ft/lbs

    45 Super 230gr 28,500 1100fps 618ft/lbs

    460 Rowland 230gr 40,000 1350fps 931ft/lbs

    45 Win Mag 230gr 46,500 1600fps 1,307ft/lbs

    In comparison, here are Underwood's comperable 44 Magnum loads to 460 Rowland:

    44 Magnum 240gr 1400fps 1,045ft/lbs

    44 Magnum 300gr 1200fps 959ft/lbs.

    Although I plan to ream one barrel to accept the 460 Rowland cartridge -- and keep one barrel chambered in 45 ACP, I have seen other 460 Rowland shooters successfully shoot 45 ACP through their pistol without changing the barrel because the extractor is strong enough to hold the cartridge at the proper position without headspacing on the case head. I do not advocate doing this -- but in a pinch (say to save your life or provide food in a survival situation), it could be done.

    My next step while waiting for the guide rod to show up -- is to order some 460 Rowland ammunition from Underwood and take the barrel to Phil at Jay's guns to have the chamber reamed to 460 Rowland specifications (unless someone here has a 45 ACP chamber reamer that they would allow me to rent/borrow). I plan to update this thread with the progress of the project -- as well as range reports (good, bad, or disasterous) along the way.

    Let me know what you think!

    For now, here is the project's base pistol that I picked up on gunbroker for $340:

    DSC00094.jpg


    DSC00093.jpg
     
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    Clay

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    Informative, keep us posted-I'm curious to see the final outcome-how does one ream the barrel, drill press, a lathe? Thanks -
     

    ilintner

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    Awesome stuff there! Gonna be a monster to shoot!
     

    flyandscuba

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    The project is progressing nicely. The extra barrel, extra power recoil and striker springs, backstraps, and Underwood 460 Rowland ammo arrived. Phil at Jay's didn't have a 45 ACP chamber finish reamer -- so I ordered one from Brownell's tonight. That's actually a good thing - because I will be able to do additional chamber work on other pistols if this works out as planned (maybe a long-slide 460 Rowland G21 in the future...).

    Once the reamer arrives, I'll tap oneshot's knowledge and guidance to do the chamber work with me, assemble the pistol -- and do some test firing. Although I expect the pistol can handle the added pressure of the 460 Rowland cartridge, I plan to wear heavy gloves and a face shield for the testing!:eek:
     

    flyandscuba

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    Here's the latest update. The Manson reamer arrived so I loaded up all the bits and headed up to oneshot's place to modify the chamber.

    First, we tried the new barrel from S&W. No go - evidently, S&W tennifer treats (hardens) the barrels like they do on the M&P guns. The reamer would not cut the metal! Next, was plan B - try the older original barrel that didn't appear to be as finely finished - hoping that it wasn't hardened in the same fashion or to the same extent. No such luck - the reamer wouldn't cut metal in it either!

    So - it appears that I will be limited to shooting 45 Super in the SW99, rather than 460 Rowland. I'm bummed - but my plan C will be to work up a Glock 21SF for 460 Rowland, where conversion barrels are readily available.

    I will get my 460 Rowland fix - one way or another!
     

    MIAMI MATT

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    Is that round similar to the 458 socom, if so please tell me you are mot going to shoot it...Very cool project,with those pressures the slide might evaporate...stay safe dude ..
     

    flyandscuba

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    Latest Attempt at a 460 Rowland Conversion

    Here is my latest plan to satisfy my 460 Rowland fix...

    I picked up this XD 45 "Compact Tactical" (short grip -- long slide) on gunbroker today. It also includes a regular high capacity magazine with a spacer if a full-size grip is desired.

    The conversion kit was ordered from www.460rowland.com and is a drop-in fit. The stock recoil spring is sufficient in the XD to handle the power of the 460 Rowland. With the conversion installed, this XD will be able to shoot standard pressure 45 ACP, +P, 45 Super, and 460 Rowland loads without changing the barrel, as the extractor is strong enough to hold the cartridge in the proper position for headspacing.

    This combination will allow true 44 Magnum power from an easily concealable 45 ACP-sized pistol, while retaining the ability to shoot less powerful loads for self defense. I can see 255gr Hardcast Lead 460 Rowland ammunition from Buffalo Bore for woods use, and 45 Super Gold Dots from Underwood for self defense work.
     

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    deadeyeluke

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    your a frankengunner.......just one shot will knock the world off it's axis, I heard it on the net P.S. I cant wait to shoot it side by side with mine to see how much smoother yours will be (being that yours is based on a new design and mine is a 100 year old design )
     

    flyandscuba

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    460 Rowland Project -- UPDATE -- Second Attempt Successful!!

    After being unable to modify the SW99 from 45 ACP to 460 Rowland, I decided to try another platform...

    As I pondered pulling the trigger on a 460 Rowland project, I considered all options. Having many Glocks, and being an armorer -- I considered the G21SF. I thought about the S&W M&P. Being a relatively new owner of the XDs -- who successfully runs 45 Super in his unmodified XDs -- I decided to look to the XD or XDm as a base pistol.

    I chose the "Compact Tactical" (5" top end on the frame with the compact grip) because I wanted the long barrel to get the most velocity -- but with the shorter grip that would be better for concealment. (This will primarily be a woods/hunting sidearm -- but could be pressed into service as a CCW in some instances.)

    I read the posts that were produced with my searches for 460 Rowland on the XD forum -- and I became concerned that this combination might not be reliable. I thought about going back to the Glock -- but decided to see if I had some of the same difficulties that others expressed with FTEs.

    I ordered my conversion from www.460Rowland.com -- and it arrived within a week from placing the order. When I opened the package, I became somewhat concerned again -- as the barrel and compensator looked as if it was used... I don't know if this condition was due to testing at the factory -- or if this was a conversion that was a "return" that was shipped to me as being new... The "kit" included the barrel, the compensator, the Loctite, and a mag spring. The instruction sheet made no mention of the mag spring. Rather than call or email the company, I decided to give the conversion a shot without complaining.

    My brand new XD "Compact Tactical" arrived last week (a gunbroker purchase at a very good price). The flush magazine holds 10 rounds and the extended magazine also only holds 10 rounds (bummer). I plan to add a couple of 13 round magazines soon.

    I installed the barrel and compensator and allowed the loctite to cure for two days. Today was the day to take the hand cannon to the range. I wanted to see how well the extractor would hold the proper headspace so I loaded up the first magazine to shoot the following -- 2 rounds of 45 GAP ball (Georgia Arms), 2 rounds of 45 ACP ball (WWB), 2 rounds of 45 ACP +P (Ranger T), 2 rounds of 45 Super (Underwood), and 2 rounds of 460 Rowland (Underwood).

    The first round of 45 GAP fired, but if failed to completely eject -- causing a stove pipe. The second round fired but did not eject. Both rounds of 45 ACP ball fired and ejected. Both rounds of 45 ACP +P fired and ejected. Both rounds of 45 Super fired and ejected with a noticable increase in recoil and muzzle flash. Both rounds of 460 Rowland fired and ejected without difficulty -- and the slide locked to the rear over an empty magazine.

    The second magazine was loaded with 10 rounds of 45 Super. All rounds fired and ejected without difficulty.

    The third magazine was loaded with 10 rounds of 460 Rowland. All rounds fired and ejected without difficulty.

    Accuracy from all rounds fired was exceptional. Less than a 2 inch group from 15 feet, standing and shooting offhand. This is from a pistol straight from the box - no cleaning or lubing, simply the barrel change and compensator installation. Also, the single stock magazine spring was used for all rounds fired.

    I have to say that I am extremely pleased with the results of this conversion project -- and the reliability that I have personally experienced. Maybe I am just lucky... 44 Magnum power from a 45 XD -- who could complain about that!!

    While at the range, I decided to run some 45 ACP Blazer (aluminum) and MagTech Ball ammo through the conversion. The Blazer ammunition would fire but not eject. The failures were mixed between stovepipes, nose dives, and simply a spent case remaining in the chamber. The MagTech produced a few FTEs of the stovepipe variety, but the majority of the rounds would fire and eject without difficulty -- although the recoil was very mild, I suppose as a result of the compensator.

    I plan to do more range testing with both 45 Super and 460 Rowland, especially once I obtain some 13 round magazines. After another 200 rounds of failure-free shooting, I will declare the conversion reliable for personal protection/hunting.

    460RowlandXD.jpg
     

    ilintner

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    That is pretty bad ass... Nice looking gun, and it appears to do alright accuracy wise! How do you time the compensator on the barrel to keep the ports facing up? Did you have to shim it, or does it use a set screw or what?
     

    flyandscuba

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    After my success with the XD Compact Tactical 460 Rowland conversion, I decided to do something more CCW-friendly...

    I spoke with Johnny Rowland at the Tulsa Gun Show this past weekend. He raved over the G30 conversion he has been personally using - so I decided to go ahead and pick up a conversion kit for one. It includes the barrel, compensator and a replacement RSA.

    I located a used G30 in excellent condition (CDNN currently has them for $399) and dropped in the conversion when I returned home.

    Today, I had a chance to take it to the range at Nashville Armory for a test run. Pics to follow - but I gave it the same test sequence as the XD Compact Tactical. 2 rds of 45 GAP, followed by 2 rds of Blazer ball, 2 rds of Winchester Ranger T +P, 2 rds of 45 Super, and finally 2 rds of 460 Rowland - all from the same magazine.

    The 45 GAP would fire but not eject - nor would the Blazer Ball. The +P, 45 Super, and 460 Rowland all fired and ejected without difficulty.

    I ran a total of 50 rds of 460 Rowland through the G30 - no problems whatsoever. It does shoot with "authority" and would not be for the recoil sensitive. Even with the compensator and RSA installed - it has more recoil than my G29SF with the hottest 10mm Auto loads.

    Of course, I was shooting Johnny Rowland's "personal carry" loads that have been chronographed at 1570fps from a 5" barrel for the 185 gr Nosler bullet. Even if I lose 100-150 fps from the shorter G30 - that is impressive power from a small, easily concealed handgun.

    Johnny, his partner Thomas, and I were discussing the Springfield XDS - and that several of us have been running 45 Super through it unmodified. They indicated that they are planning on a 460 Rowland conversion for the XDS! Yep, you read that right... What a hand cannon that will make if it is successful.
     
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